Sully Posted April 13, 2013 Share #1 Posted April 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have used the M240 on various video jobs for about three weeks. Yes, it has rolling shutter, moire, shadow noise, blah, blah, blah.... Just like all the other DSLRs we use (Panasonic GH2/3, Canon, and Nikon 800). However, the actual picture looks great. The clients like it.... which means we like it! We generally use Leica R zoom lenses (21-35mm, 35-70mm, and 70-180mm). The Panny and Canon are our first choice for low end work, but the M240 will be integrated into our work flow because the actual picture looks so good. But there is one issue that should be addressed. The M240 does not have a video out, so, the director/producer can not see the action on a big external monitor. All the other video DSLARs have a way of sending a signal to an external monitor. The lack of this one feature in the M240 is going to relegate it to a B-roll camera. Hopefully, Leica or a third party developer (Olympus) can make a module that sends a video signal from the M240 to an external monitor. Or perhaps, the M240 hand grip might send picture to a computer via the USB port. Even if sound did not get transmitted, the picture would be good enough for us. Otherwise, the M240 will be a B-roll unit or an "auteur" camera. Ciao, Sully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 13, 2013 Posted April 13, 2013 Hi Sully, Take a look here Video thoughts. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chris_tribble Posted April 13, 2013 Share #2 Posted April 13, 2013 Useful to hear - and agreed re the video out problem... I think the handgrip must fix this if it is able to take a live view feed out...? But I'm no expert on this. re clients - can you say a bit more about what it is they like? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisoje Posted April 13, 2013 Share #3 Posted April 13, 2013 I was commenting on this issue first thing the specs. (including all add on accessories) were out... No hdmi out! Even cheapest DSLR have a way of connecting some kind of monitor (for viewing if not recording re. clean signal out). Since New M has the "connector" for evf that slides in the hot shoe, my initial idea was to make a similar "dongle" (official prototype name:D) that would slide in just like evf and instead being a evf just to have (mini)hdmi plug to connect cable... I don't know if this is technically possible at all. I just think it would solve current BIG ISSUE of usability of New M for video... And I assume if possible to produce that price would be affordable, comparing to (Olympus) original evf. Third party geniuses: are you listening? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted April 13, 2013 Chris, The clients like color palette, skin color, overall resolution, and out of focus areas (Bokeh??). We generally shoot with film mode OFF, sharpness, saturation, and contrast low. If the the client wants the chip with no post-processing we will up all the levels back to standard. We generally shoot at ISO 400-800, but the 1600 setting doesn't kill us if we need it. We have f. 1.4 and f.1 lenses if we really need them. Although the R lenses give us the best focus control, I am going to keep working with the M lenses for B-roll work. They are so small and easy to carry. I can use the optical view finder just like the old Bolex or Eymo cameras of ancient vintage. I'm going to practice with these lenses to get better. Ciao, Sully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 13, 2013 Share #5 Posted April 13, 2013 But there is one issue that should be addressed. The M240 does not have a video out, so, the director/producer can not see the action on a big external monitor. All the other video DSLARs have a way of sending a signal to an external monitor. The lack of this one feature in the M240 is going to relegate it to a B-roll camera. That's not something the optional grip offers, is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted April 13, 2013 Sisoje, I like your idea about the dongle from the hot shoe. Hopefully, the video signal could be sent to an external monitor, and the dongle could accept a 3.5mm mini plug for a sound feed to go into the camera. Ciao, Sully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted April 13, 2013 Share #7 Posted April 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since New M has the "connector" for evf that slides in the hot shoe, my initial idea was to make a similar "dongle" (official prototype name:D) that would slide in just like evf and instead being a evf just to have (mini)hdmi plug to connect cable... The question is whether the M transmits full HD resolution over the evf port. If my math isn't off the 1.4 megapixels of the EVF2 do not show full HD resolution. I would be surprised if the camera sent more data than the viewfinder actually displays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share #8 Posted April 13, 2013 Roey, I'll bet you are correct. But even if the picture going to a monitor was not full HD, I could live with that. For decades we used standard def monitors. We just need to see what happens in a shot. It doesn't have to be a full on color grading image.... just usable picture would be great. Ciao, Sully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisoje Posted April 13, 2013 Share #9 Posted April 13, 2013 The question is whether the M transmits full HD resolution over the evf port. If my math isn't off the 1.4 megapixels of the EVF2 do not show full HD resolution. I would be surprised if the camera sent more data than the viewfinder actually displays. No problem... Old and trusty Canon 5D MKII does not have full hd out either.... SD signal good enough! Just some kind of signal... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted April 14, 2013 Share #10 Posted April 14, 2013 For me the more important omission is the ability to record with a flat look Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted April 14, 2013 Share #11 Posted April 14, 2013 Sully (and others who know video), what would be the protocol or best practice for holding a video camera/DSLR (and now M240) for minutes on end while recording a clip? I recorded an 8-minute clip last weekend on my M which included some slow pans. While super excited by the resulting video quality, I found holding the camera to my eye for that length of time was tiring - and that tiredness then translated into a couple spots of jerky movement. How does a seasoned videographer manage that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabbo Posted April 14, 2013 Share #12 Posted April 14, 2013 Jeff, There's no easy way around it...even if you had IS on the lens or camera body you're going to need to utilize a mono/tripod or some sort of rig if you want to go handheld for that long (and be steady). Of course, wide angle lens will be more forgiving. This is especially true for cameras with fixed LCD screens since eventually your arms will tire from holding it up to your eyes for framing and maintaining focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 14, 2013 Share #13 Posted April 14, 2013 Another point, if you don't have video out, you can't see what the camera sees when filming with video goggles or on a monitor when using it on a pole or remotely like this. I am not sure I am ready to put 10K of camera in the air right now anyway. But with the coming explosion of new lightweight inexpensive brushless motor gimbals for achieving very steady results from small cameras, handheld and remote video with all kinds of camera gear will become pretty mainstream. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabbo Posted April 14, 2013 Share #14 Posted April 14, 2013 Another point, if you don't have video out, you can't see what the camera sees when flying with video goggles or on a monitor when using it remotely like this. I am not sure I am ready to put 10K of camera in the air right now anyway. But with the coming explosion of new lightweight inexpensive brushless motor gimbals for achieving very steady results from small cameras, handheld and remote video with all kinds of camera gear will become pretty mainstream. Alan have you seen this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted April 14, 2013 Jager, I use a Cullmann suction cup (Ace Photo-$60) screwed into the base plate. I pivot the cup so that it rests on my breastbone/collarbone and use an EVF finder to get the camera right up against my head. This is not ideal, but it gives me good stability for a short period of time. When the M240 base-plate hand grip arrives (????), I can mod this rig with a rod that rests on my shoulder bone and goes down my back for extra support. There are lots of goofy looking systems to keep these cameras stable...and I'm just adding another strange looking device. The next trick will be to find a really fast way to get the camera on/off a tripod and on/off the shoulder rig. I have a sinking feeling that a second M240 will be needed for a dedicated hand held system. The saga continues. Ciao, Sully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 15, 2013 Share #16 Posted April 15, 2013 Alan have you seen this? Yes I have. There will be tiny 120 gram $250 versions for the GoPro shortly. And ones for larger cameras too. It is easier to stabilize a camera that has such low mass. (Tricky balance issues and brushless motor size issues are delaying some of this for larger platforms..) An invention called the Alex Mos Simple Brushless Gimbal Controller started this and other controllers are out now too. I have this machine on order. Spidex V.2 Testing the new brushless gimbal (RAW video, no post pro) on Vimeo I find RC aerial work more interesting and challenging to me now than regular still and video work. The aerial stills I'm getting from the GoPro 3 are surprisingly good too. There is a revolution going on in all of this video stuff but especially in the very small inexpensive gear. http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/8/4201716/blackmagic-announces-pocket-cinema-camera-and-3995-production-camera-hands-on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 15, 2013 Share #17 Posted April 15, 2013 I was just thinking that technology moves in various ways. The Movi system is a hand held adaptation from aerial platform technology. And the Ecilop Easy is a quadcopter adaptation of the Steadicam. Video stabilization technology is moving very quickly now. ECILOP EASY V1209 Below is a collection of some of the new brushless gimbals that I have seen announced in the past couple of weeks alone. I stopped saving photos on any new ones announced since about a week ago. You can see how crazy it is getting. And this inexpensive complete DJI Phantom GoPro/gimbal system will move this technology into the world of consumers and tv stations. I don't think they will limit it to just use on UAVs. This interview is from the NAB convention. DJI Innovations / CEO, Colin Guinn NAB 2013 Interview - DJI Phantom Brushless Gimbal GoPro Hero 3 - YouTube It is remarkable to see how big an impact the GoPro is having. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/202561-video-thoughts/?do=findComment&comment=2299111'>More sharing options...
satureyes Posted April 17, 2013 Share #18 Posted April 17, 2013 Another point, if you don't have video out, you can't see what the camera sees when filming with video goggles or on a monitor when using it on a pole or remotely like this. I am not sure I am ready to put 10K of camera in the air right now anyway. But with the coming explosion of new lightweight inexpensive brushless motor gimbals for achieving very steady results from small cameras, handheld and remote video with all kinds of camera gear will become pretty mainstream. You can get a hero HD camera and a quad copter helicopter thing and mount for less than 900 pounds now. Insane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 17, 2013 Share #19 Posted April 17, 2013 You can get a hero HD camera and a quad copter helicopter thing and mount for less than 900 pounds now. Insane. DJI sells the ready to fly Phantom with a transmitter and GoPro hard mount (no gimbal) for under $700. I just ordered my third small quad, this one with a motorized small gimbal for the GoPro. And I am about to order a larger 6 motor one to fly the Nex. While the cheapest frame and gimbal for GoPro are around $300 by the time you add the radio gear, video transmitter, Naza GPS controller, goggles, batteries, etc. it will be around $2000. Still very cheap. Sorry for the digression but the point is that the technology in these gimbals will be used in handheld stabilization systems pretty soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1JB Posted April 17, 2013 Share #20 Posted April 17, 2013 Sully I'm curious, why don't you use a video camera for your video work? Are you doing more artistic work with the lenses you mention? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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