Riley Posted March 30, 2007 Share #21 Posted March 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) David max wide angle is 16mm with the flip diffuser down its 24mm without a stofen changes all that though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Hi Riley, Take a look here M8 and Olympus FL-36 flash.....works !. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 30, 2007 Share #22 Posted March 30, 2007 So does the more powerful, but also small FL-50. I don't do this often but I published a note on it about a month ago. I like use this one bounced, and just chimped a bit to get a workable manual setting boucing off a white ceiling at 1/60 shutter speed and f/5.6 and ISO 160. Here's one example: scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted March 30, 2007 Share #23 Posted March 30, 2007 So does the more powerful, but also small FL-50. I don't do this often but I published a note on it about a month ago. I like use this one bounced, and just chimped a bit to get a workable manual setting boucing off a white ceiling at 1/60 shutter speed and f/5.6 and ISO 160. scott whats the widest angle FL-50 will cover Scott ? do you find it a workable combination ? The FL-50 is far more powerful a unit, with larger battery capacity I dont have one because I use the Metz 54 where I need more power (like a warehouse!) the 36 for TTL in detail places and high speed fill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 30, 2007 Share #24 Posted March 30, 2007 The zoom on the fl-50 goes from 24 to 85 mm (135 effective focal lengths) and with the wide-angle diffuser covers 16 and 20. Even working without communication with the camera it has both auto and manual modes. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 30, 2007 Share #25 Posted March 30, 2007 I have the Metz 54 also but a small one would be nice to have Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Campbell Posted March 30, 2007 Share #26 Posted March 30, 2007 ck1 - Based on the data sheet the Olympus unit also has a bit more output than the SD-24 with a GN of 28 vs. 20 - effectively one stop more light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted March 30, 2007 Share #27 Posted March 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nice find. I also see Sto Fen makes a diffusion head to fit it. The Leica flash is cute, and the SF-20 rarely let me down with my M7, but it really is limited in so many ways, esp considering the price (that ol' red dot again). I also like the battery option of AAs or lithium. Think I might try one of these out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share #28 Posted March 31, 2007 Update: The sun has come out and I'm happy to report that fill flash works perfectly (as it should do). The ability effectively reduce the flash power in third stop incriments by simply turning the wheel on the flash unit is a great ergonomic feature. For those that have requested, I'll attach the CV 15mm and try a few shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted March 31, 2007 Share #29 Posted March 31, 2007 thats great ck, heres a few views of FL-36 on LC-1 first LC-1 dimensions 5.4"W x 3.2"H (135mm x 82mm) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/20178-m8-and-olympus-fl-36-flashworks/?do=findComment&comment=216768'>More sharing options...
ck1 Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share #30 Posted March 31, 2007 ok...all with CV15mm + 486 IR filter, flash bounced off ceiling, no processing in photoshop save for ptcorrect to remove cyan mush and correct the inherent vignetting of the lens. Note flash + CV15mm = no space for external viewfinder... NB does anyone have a good set of numbers for ptcorrect and the CV 15mm ? I use 14, 3.3, 3.3 but it's not quite there... First photo is without flash, for comparison... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/20178-m8-and-olympus-fl-36-flashworks/?do=findComment&comment=216775'>More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 31, 2007 Share #31 Posted March 31, 2007 The FL-50 is far more powerful a unit, with larger battery capacity I dont have one because I use the Metz 54 where I need more power (like a warehouse!) the 36 for TTL in detail places and high speed fill Well, in the interests of completeness, here's what it looks like. From the preceeding picture it is not much bigger than the FL-38, but there is room for two more batteries and I suppose a hulking great condensor to fire the flash harder. Two dials control auto mode, one for ISO and a second for f/stop. In manual mode I suppose it justs gives it all it's got. The flash and the biggish 24-asph Elmarit make the M8 look tiny, but look at the comparison with my E-1 and its very nice 11-22 (eff 22-44) zoom. Macros courtesy of the GR-D (f/4.0 at ISO 800). scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiajay Posted March 31, 2007 Share #32 Posted March 31, 2007 Can anyone confirm that there is absolutely positively no danger of frying an M8 with the Olympus flashes? I am not asking whether or not yours has fried after X amount of use, I am asking if anyone has confirmed whether the actual voltages are safe for this combination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted March 31, 2007 Share #33 Posted March 31, 2007 i just measured the voltage across the pos and neg terminals at +4.88 volts if that helps and my Metz 54 MZ3 is +4.29 volts if there are any 'known' flashes that work with M8, you might find their trigger voltage here Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages there's a page on the FL 36 here too wrotniak.net: The FL-36 Flash Unit from Olympus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiajay Posted March 31, 2007 Share #34 Posted March 31, 2007 Well to be honest, I am not sure it does help. Does the Leica flash also measure those same voltages, and are ALL the terminals on the Olympus flash measuring the same voltages as the Leica flash? Guys, just because something is working doesn't mean that the proper voltage is going through and if it's off it could be doing harm without you realizing it. If for instance, too high a voltage is being applied to the terminals in the hot shoe, it could be like applying too high a voltage to a light bulb. Over time, that bulb is going to fail prematurely. Also, by measuring the 4.88 volts aren't you just measuring the triggering circuit? What happens when the actual exposure is taken and all the communication between the camera and flash take place? Someone needs to verify that this will not do harm. I don't think I would continue to use this flash until someone can verify that the voltages are safe. It's an expensive camera, you know? Rob I see that you edited your post to include the Metz trigger voltage and the link to the triggering page... As you can see, the Metz which we know to be compatible with Leica IS a bit lower in its triggering voltage. That difference in itself is slight and I doubt enough of a difference to mean much of anything, but it is not the triggering voltage alone that worries me, it's the voltage supplied through the dedicated pin that comes in contact with the one on the Leica itself. While the Leica may not be using the TTL functions of the Olympus flash, it is still coming in contact with the pin that may be incompatible, thus possibly doing harm. I am not saying it IS, I am just saying be careful. I have seen many people try flash units from one manufacturer on another manufacturer's camera and ruin the camera. I would hate for that to happen here, and it may not happen until several weeks or months have past. By the way, when you see compatibility lists showing which strobes can work without damaging newer cameras they are USUALLY referring to the fact that a lot of older strobe units used much higher triggering voltages than the newer ones. Those older units could easily destroy modern day equipment. A classic example was the earliest Vivitar 283 flash which used a high voltage triggering circuit. While not doing any direct harm to early cameras, over time yes indeed that voltage would eventually wear away at the contacts on a camera such as the Nikon F2 even though it worked fine, and was actually meant for cameras of this type. Later on, Vivitar lowered the triggering voltage of this flash (because of newer more electronic cameras,... they HAD to or else more immeditate damage could take place) and this flash no longer had a triggering voltage problem, on the F2 or any other camera for that matter. This again, is NOT what I am afraid of with the use of one flash manufacturer's flash on another's camera. It's the dedicated pins. You may think all is well, the features are not working anyway, and the flash triggers so all is well, but this just may not be the case. There is STILL voltage in these pins and if they are in contact with a pin on the camera, even though the features are not in use, the wrong voltage may still flow through the camera's circuitry possibly doing damage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted March 31, 2007 Share #35 Posted March 31, 2007 Well to be honest, I am not sure it does. Does the Leica flash also measure those same voltages, and are ALL the terminals on the Olympus flash measuring the same voltages as the Leica flash? Guys, just because something is working doesn't mean that the proper voltage is going through and if it's off it could be doing harm without you realizing it. If for instance, too high a voltage is being applied to the terminals in the hot shoe, it could be like applying too high a voltage to a light bulb. Over time, that bulb is going to fail prematurely. Also, by measuring the 4.88 volts aren't you just measuring the triggering circuit? What happens when the actual exposure is taken and all the communication between the camera and flash take place? Someone needs to verify that this will not do harm. I don't think I would continue to use this flash until someone can verify that the voltages are safe. It's an expensive camera, you know? well i connected the terminals and triggered the flash, im not sure what else you would like me to do. Logically, at the site i published they claim "so Olympus too recommends strobe triggering in the 3V to 6V range." that doesn't seem the A typical circuit destroyer too me, there have been flashes with trigger voltages in the 100's of volts, which are plainly more dangerous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiajay Posted March 31, 2007 Share #36 Posted March 31, 2007 Rob, read the last paragraph that I just put in on my previous post. You are measuring trigger voltage. 4.88 volts vs 4.29 volts is fine (I THINK), but not what concerns me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted March 31, 2007 Share #37 Posted March 31, 2007 the pins you could, and probably should, blank out with card or tape call me a risk taker, or someone who lives dangerously and I certainly have in the past, but i never did that. I usually have the Metz and Leica module on the LC-1 and the FL-36 for my 4/3 cameras, but I interchange each freely as needs be. For LC-1 i particular, my logic goes like this The FL-36 is re badged and offered as the Panasonic FL-360, Panasonic uses the same footprint as Olympus for flash, coincidence ? Panasonic built the LC-1, and therefore the Digilux 2 as well, which both have a Leica footprint, generated from older Nikon designs. I don't know even yet what Leica M8 flash is recommended by Metz, but looking across the range 54 MZ3 and 44 MZ 2 seem common across M film cameras D2 LC-1 and the R cameras. While not being the same cameras, component wise and design wise, there would be a lot of synergy between Panasonic and Leica, and Panasonic and Olympus, and by logical reduction Olympus and Leica. Now as to the trigger mechanism. Logically there are 2 circuits, that of a control circuit and that of the flash and capacitor circuit. The control side is relatively low voltage, and it fires the flash electrically, there is not high current or voltage present in the control circuit. FWIW, electrical connections to explosive devices, sans those of mechanical fusing, ie. bombs, torpedoes, anti-tank anti-personnel mines and even most expertly made IED's are carried out in just this way. This protects the circuitry making the electrical firing for detonation safer and surer. An explosive device set to explode would otherwise be more dangerous to the makers and transporters than a given enemy if it where carried out any other way. And more sensitive circuitry can be employed to more reliably activate in a given suite of circumstances, even to that of disarming and disposal, with trips and tricks meant to confuse the disposal of such munitions in the field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share #38 Posted March 31, 2007 There are 4 electrical contacts on the FL-36 flash unit. Two of them (possibly by deliberate design) cannot under any curcumstances physically make contact with the metal terminals on the M8 shoe. The m8 manual states: "Other commercially-available flash units with standard flash foot(2, 3) and positive center contact, and which are fired by the center contact (X-contact, 1.21a), can also be used. We recommend the use of modern thyristor-controlled electronic flash units." 2 If flash units not specially dedicated to the LEICA M8 are used, the camera white balance will not be automatically adjusted, and the setting should be used (see p. 98). 3 The aperture specified on the lens must be manually set on the flash unit. I have emailed Leica for the final word on this and will fwd the reply when I get it. A quick search has reveals an previous email from Leica which states that the maximum voltage on the SF24-D is 5 Volts: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/discus_e/messages/2/153710.html?1124576238 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiajay Posted March 31, 2007 Share #39 Posted March 31, 2007 Good research so far. However, when Leica talks about non Leica flash units on the camera you have to keep in mind that they are mainly talking about non dedicated ones. Flash units such as the Vivitar 283 or Sunpak 383. These have no dedicated contacts. There has to be a risk with any dedicated flash not meant for this camera. . Also, yes there are two cantacts that do not come in contact with anything but there actually IS one dedicated contact in addition to the center triggering one. It's this one that scares me. Rob, when you suggest taping off that contact, you are making a lot of sense. Doing this would make me feel much better and is actually a very good idea. I have thought of asking a Leica rep about this but feel that it is not a fair thing to do. If I worked for Leica I would not want to be in a position to tell a customer that brand X flash is safe to use on a Leica. I find that most reps will only say that they do not recommend doing so. They do not want to be held responsible for something going wrong. I do hope the Olympus turns out to be a good mix. I would buy one myself. But I am NOT a risk taker with a camera so expensive and would rather wait until someone with a lot more knowledge than I have can confirm these issues. The Olympus/Panasonic/Leica connection is there, yes. But we are still making assumptions here and well, I would just rather not do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted March 31, 2007 Share #40 Posted March 31, 2007 your regard for non dedicated maybe misplaced Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages Sunpac 383 Super use for digital 'your call' 3.74V, per Colin Ethington; 3.83, per Curtis Avery;, 6.85V, according to Sunpak's techs; 6.86V per Geoff McKnight 6.8V per Phil Shima using a Quantum battery 7.05V per Jon Boehm 10.29V from Dave Dill Vivitar 283 use for digital 'NO' Older units have been reported as high as 600V! Recent (post-'87) revised 283's ("Made in China") are safer with modern cameras, running around 9-10V. Bob Atkins reports some as low as 5V. Recently units marked "Made in Korea" have also appeared... measured at 8v by Andrew Cassino and Tony Bonanno. Kevin Omura used a Quantum battery and got a hefty 261.4V out of his (sn3012330), while Göran Samuelsson had two units with different voltages: 230V and 190V. Other reports have had similar variety, up to 270V. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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