mjh Posted March 27, 2013 Share #101 Posted March 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) So it does indeed appear to have issues with SD cards. What issues would that be then? (You had mentioned banding as a possible issue.) All we are talking about is start-up and wake from sleep time, and whether the variations observed are correlated to card features (and if so, which ones) is far from clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Hi mjh, Take a look here M240 SD Cards and Associated Camera Function Speeds. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k-hawinkler Posted March 27, 2013 Share #102 Posted March 27, 2013 What issues would that be then? (You had mentioned banding as a possible issue.) All we are talking about is start-up and wake from sleep time, and whether the variations observed are correlated to card features (and if so, which ones) is far from clear. Michael, Aren't you now practicing FUD? :eek: Conveniently leaving out some facts, like SDFormater differences, number of images written before the rate slows down? Basic differences between cameras, like Jono's and Chris'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 27, 2013 Share #103 Posted March 27, 2013 The logical explanation for smaller = faster is that the camera processor is running some sort of memory integrity check when activated.... in a rather desultory an inefficient way ..... .... in fact it is hard to see why there should be any delay at all when turning on the camera as most of the other electronic processes must be almost instantaneous. It is zero on my old Nikons. Anyone out there got an S series ?? What are the start up times for an S1/S2 ?? There is some processing commonality and the same LCD etc..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 27, 2013 Share #104 Posted March 27, 2013 The camera runs nothing like a card's "memory check". Startup should be faster than it takes the photographer to raise the camera to eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted March 27, 2013 Share #105 Posted March 27, 2013 What issues would that be then? (You had mentioned banding as a possible issue.) All we are talking about is start-up and wake from sleep time, and whether the variations observed are correlated to card features (and if so, which ones) is far from clear. Oh, when you said the jury was still out, I thought you were talking about the start up/speed issues. So that was what I replied to. But now it seems when you said that you meant something else? Your post now seems to imply that your "the jury is still out" was a reply to my question about the banding/sd card issue? I didnt know that, but is the jury still out on the banding issue? You even mention other people's experiences suggesting otherwise than your own experience. Do you mean some people experience the banding issue? I'm joking of course. All in good fun! Before this derails, let me add that I think that no such sd card/banding issue exists with the new M (at least not yet), And, I belief, neither does Michael. The sd card-sstart up/write speed issue is real though, and this thread seems very helpfull to both Leica (who are probably already are working on a fix) and us as consumers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted March 28, 2013 Share #106 Posted March 28, 2013 Everyone seems to have gone very quiet. Is this because you are still looking through your cupboards for the smallest and oldest SD cards you can find (maybe a 2 GB Sandisk Ultra II) so that it is readily available for when you get your M? I'm heading to the flea market this weekend to find old Sandisk Ultra II low GB, SD cards. I wonder how the Ultra I's will work? Maybe the illusive half second mark can be beat. I see the 5D3 has a built in cheater system. It uses a sensor cleaner for a couple of seconds before shutter activation can be achieved. Smart idea. Now to the RX-1. It's LV goes instantly on at start-up, but since I am trying to hold down the shutter while turing it on I am getting in the way of efficiency. But when I can get out of the way of the camera doing its job, it will take a shot in less than 2 seconds. Can't remember if it is cleaning the sensor also with some ultrasonic device. That word Ultra keeps coming up. How I wish tomorrow was Saturday so I could head to the flea market. Just remembered that there is a used computer shop nearby. I could be in luck tomorrow. Mustn't flash my Leica in their faces otherwise the $1 or $2 SD card will become $10. Now I know why I have that black electrical tape lying about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 28, 2013 Share #107 Posted March 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) All I can add to this is that with Sandisk 16GB x45 and Panasonic 16GB gold x24 (I think) AFTER formatting with SDFormatter, start up time is completely acceptable and I've stopped worrying ... Hence I've gone quiet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted March 28, 2013 Share #108 Posted March 28, 2013 Do we know how often one must use this SDFormatter to achieve "acceptable" start-up times? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 28, 2013 Share #109 Posted March 28, 2013 If the subsequent in camera format just overwrites the file allocation table and does nothing more it is hard to see how it would make much difference ........ I assume SDformatter creates a more efficient Leica friendly structure that makes things quicker...... I suspect Leica uses industry standard coding to access things .... in true obedient Northern European fashion .... I am sure things could be speeded up by using non-standard and dirty coding techniques .... which has long been the bane of MS Windows software ...... but it comes at the cost of reliability and compatability.... ..... at least all the SD cards seem to work this time ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 28, 2013 Share #110 Posted March 28, 2013 Do we know how often one must use this SDFormatter to achieve "acceptable" start-up times? It seems to be that it only needs ONE format in SD Formatter to fix things. After that, in-camera formats work and don't seem to reduce start-up speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 28, 2013 Share #111 Posted March 28, 2013 Still slower than my M8.2 ... One second to power on, same to wake, 10 frames continous... i know that M8 files are smaller but a camera is a camera and what you say is disappointing folks. My sample will be faster hopefully but i don't hold my breath... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted March 28, 2013 Share #112 Posted March 28, 2013 Still slower than my M8.2 ... One second to power on, same to wake, 10 frames continous... i know that M8 files are smaller but a camera is a camera and what you say is disappointing folks. My sample will be faster hopefully but i don't hold my breath... Am I reading here that you are getting an M? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 28, 2013 Share #113 Posted March 28, 2013 Next month my dealer said, but i don't plan to sell my R-D1 and M8.2 for now. Taking larger pictures is good but having to wait for that is not what i'm prepared to agree with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted April 2, 2013 Share #114 Posted April 2, 2013 I used 16Gb Transcend Class 10 cards in my M, formatted in camera for the following: Initial startup: ~3sec Wake w/o LV: next to instantaneous; definitely faster than .5sec Wake w LV: about .5 sec As the camera seems to use little to no power while asleep, I just leave the camera turned on while I have it over my shoulder or around my neck. Then it's ready instantly. Settings are Auto ISO, shutter dial on A, no auto review, compressed DNG. On continuous, I get about 7 shots at fastest frame rate, then 6 more at slightly slower speed (about 2fps) and then 1 per second. Time to clear buffer after that: 14sec. The responsiveness, especially from wake and then the fact that on single shot I really haven't ever had to wait for the camera to clear the buffer finally make this the first digital Leica that I can shoot like a film M. A huge improvement over the M9. Strange that these large variations have shown up. I don't have any other fast cards around, as my earlier experiences with Sandisk and especially Lexar have not been very good. Transcend have been the most reliable and consistent cards over the years and I now have about 20 16Gb cards that I use in various cameras. Henning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 2, 2013 Share #115 Posted April 2, 2013 Did you try to format your Transcend with SDFormatter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted April 2, 2013 Share #116 Posted April 2, 2013 Did you try to format your Transcend with SDFormatter? I just tried, but the program can't see my card. I'll try with another card. Nope. No luck. I did some more rigorous timing tests on a clean card. I now get 6 shots at .31sec or less, then one at .44 sec, then 6 more at .38sec or less. So 13 shots and then it takes 12 seconds for the buffer to clear. Wake time is instantaneous. The shutter fires as I press down; no slower than when the framelines are there and everything is awake. Essentially, the frame lines appear as I touch the shutter button, and at the same time the shot is fired. I set the auto power off to 5 minutes usually, so that the frame lines don't go away too fast. Henning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted April 2, 2013 Share #117 Posted April 2, 2013 I just tried, but the program can't see my card. I'll try with another card. Nope. No luck. I did some more rigorous timing tests on a clean card. I now get 6 shots at .31sec or less, then one at .44 sec, then 6 more at .38sec or less. So 13 shots and then it takes 12 seconds for the buffer to clear. Wake time is instantaneous. The shutter fires as I press down; no slower than when the framelines are there and everything is awake. Essentially, the frame lines appear as I touch the shutter button, and at the same time the shot is fired. I set the auto power off to 5 minutes usually, so that the frame lines don't go away too fast. Henning Hi Henning, Congratulations! Best reported values so far. How did you accomplish those precise measurements? When did you get your M? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 2, 2013 Share #118 Posted April 2, 2013 Henning, you might need to update your drivers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted April 2, 2013 Share #119 Posted April 2, 2013 Hi Henning, Congratulations! Best reported values so far. How did you accomplish those precise measurements? When did you get your M? Thanks. I'm in Vancouver, Canada and got it from the local dealer that has an in-store boutique. The measurements were achieved by photographing an on-screen digital timer. Again, this is for compressed DNG's with auto ISO, shutter on A, classic metering and no review. Transcend Class 10 16Gb. I still wish the initial startup time were faster, but since the wake time is nothing there is little to complain about. I also wonder what causes that (repeatable) hiccup in the middle of the continuous shooting, but since I hardly ever shoot on C, I don't really care. Pico, my drivers are just fine and everything else sees my card perfectly. Just not SDformatter. There's something else that is causing this issue. I'm going to try some things at my disposal, but there are so many variables I might not find the issue and since the practical performance of my camera is quite good, I'm not really motivated right now. Henning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted April 2, 2013 Share #120 Posted April 2, 2013 Hi Henning, Many thanks. I think your parameters for the M are pretty much optimal. On the M9 DNG compressed was always faster than uncompressed. Please, let me ask again when did you pick up your M? I am curious whether it's from the first or a later batch. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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