How long has color film been common?

[adan]

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BTW - if there is a readable emulsion code number on the edge of the film (along with the arrows and frame numbers) it can be used to identify exactly which film type it is, using this list:

 

Kodak Film Number to Film Type Cross Reference Table — Tom Philo Photography

 

e.g. Vericolor II daylight (S) = 5025

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[xalo]

Regarding old color, here is good a compilation[/url] of some 4x5" Kodachrome images from WWII. I'm almost certain the lighting was open bulb flash.

 

Pico, I also had Alfred T. Palmer's stunning and elaborate propaganda photos in mind: the originals and scans are in the archives of the Library of Congress, public domain, as far as the archives are concerned. Some company is now selling the cleaned files and prints.

 

Neal, a beautiful picture, thanks for sharing.

This is what I find crazy about the kodachromes: while time passes, they deliver from their earliest days until the end a very consistent, atemporal rendering, taking the image content from different epochs so almost physically close.

 

Alexander

[gyoung]

Back in the day, it was probably Vericolor. Had an ASA of 160, so it looks like a powerful flash your dad had to use. A cutting-edge portable flash in those days included an external batt hanging off one's shoulder, about the size of a laptop case. I used to borrow my friend's dad's flash batt to launch model rockets--it had as much juice as a car batt.

 

That's a good photo of Dirksen--I think he was chair of the Illinois delegation at that convention. If the rest of your dad's work is in the same vein, you should see about getting it published again.

 

Dirksen's famous for (among other things) his dictum on government spending: "A billion here. a billion there, pretty soon you're talking about serious money." That's inflation-adjusted, I think the original may have been expressed in millions.

 

I remember using both Braun and Metz (a 502 I think) in those days, they made such a whine when recharging that everyone in range turned and stared at the photographer.....

Very embarrassing

 

Gerry

[pico]

Singer-Graflex flash with a blue top battery pack the weight of a couple six packs. To keep in shape we religiously schlepped a couple home every day. A couple six packs that is.

[A miller]

Thanks to all for their thoughtful replies:

 

Alexander - Great idea regarding contributing some of the photos (particularly the ones of political nature). I will definitely consider this. As much as taxes have been going up, I'm not particularly in a mood to be giving up more of my assets to the government:), but I will give it due consideration.

 

Neal - Man, now we know where you get your great looks!

 

Pico - Many thanks for the link to the WWII photo gallery. These are hands down the most gorgeous color photographs that I have ever seen from this era. Well done!

 

Andy - Many thanks for the link to the site containing the code for the old Kodak film. All my 120 negatives say is "Safety Film," along with the frame number. What be this?

[xalo]

Alexander - Great idea regarding contributing some of the photos (particularly the ones of political nature). I will definitely consider this. As much as taxes have been going up, I'm not particularly in a mood to be giving up more of my assets to the government:), but I will give it due consideration.

 

Thanks, Adam. I preferred thinking of it as sharing a part of your assets with your fellow citizens (on this planet) Philanthropy begins with you (and can be a marketing strategy, too)...

 

Alexander

[A miller]

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Thanks, Adam. I preferred thinking of it as sharing a part of your assets with your fellow citizens (on this planet) Philanthropy begins with you (and can be a marketing strategy, too)...

 

Alexander

 

Agree 100%.

[Dr Owl]

May I emerge from the shadows with a memory of debates at the time (probably in the pages of "Amateur Photographer") among wedding photographers.

 

Some argued that the change from black-and-white to colour was rapid and permanent; that colour would soon be universal; and that most couples, who were paying the bills, wanted colour photographs of their wedding.

 

Others argued that the change may be rapid, but the colour prints weren't permanent, not yet anyway. If a couple could be persuaded to accept black-and-white, they would have a far more durable set of memories.

 

As late as 1972, I remember a wedding I attended as having the formal photographs taken in medium-format black-and-white, with a photographer walking around the reception taking colour 35mm.

 

Safety film, by the way. IIRC, this was the change from a film base of cellulose nitrate--frightenly inflammable--to cellulose acetate.

 

Later,

 

Dr Owl

 

----------------------------

John Owlett, Southampton, UK

[Orient XI]

May I emerge from the shadows with a memory of debates at the time (probably in the pages of "Amateur Photographer") among wedding photographers.

 

Some argued that the change from black-and-white to colour was rapid and permanent; that colour would soon be universal; and that most couples, who were paying the bills, wanted colour photographs of their wedding.

 

Others argued that the change may be rapid, but the colour prints weren't permanent, not yet anyway. If a couple could be persuaded to accept black-and-white, they would have a far more durable set of memories.

 

As late as 1972, I remember a wedding I attended as having the formal photographs taken in medium-format black-and-white, with a photographer walking around the reception taking colour 35mm.

 

Safety film, by the way. IIRC, this was the change from a film base of cellulose nitrate--frightenly inflammable--to cellulose acetate.

 

Later,

 

Dr Owl

 

----------------------------

John Owlett, Southampton, UK

Cynics said the lack of permance no longer mattered as the colour photographs of the '70's lasted nas long as the marriages entered into at that time.

Cellulose nitrate film base was still used in the 60's by Adox (then a German firm). I recall tossing the end of one of their 120 films onto the fire with spectacular results — even for a research chemist!

[Orient XI]

It is amazing to see how well these old Kodachrome images hold up. I recently found a box of slides stored in my garage attic from the 60s & 70s - a mix of Kodachrome and Ektachrome. The Kodachome looked almost new, but the Ektachrome required a lot of correction, and the colors were still off.

 

The classic Kodachrome process used colour couplers in the three separate colour developers used to generate the positive image. Thus only a tiny quantity remained in the film after processing.

Ektachrome used the Agfacolor process in which the colour couplers were incorporated in oily globules in the three colour emulsions. As in both process the colour couplers reacted with developer oxidation products to form coloured dyes, but in the case of Ektachrome they remained in the emulsion forever. The oily globules were there to prevent migration of the dyestuffs within and between emulsion layers and thus were specifically designed never to be washed out.

[jaapv]

 

Kodachrome was not commonly an MF film. It was produced in 120 (and up to 8 x 10) near the beginning of its life, since it was the only color film generally available.

Ummm...Agfa Color dates back to 1932...

[CalArts 99]

Safety film, by the way. IIRC, this was the change from a film base of cellulose nitrate--frightenly inflammable--to cellulose acetate.

 

Unfortunately it was discovered not too long ago that cellulose acetate self-destructs. Many collections are experiencing the 'vinegar syndrome' and watching their film bubble up while the emulsion separates from the base. I once worked for a large collection helping to catalog and isolate degrading film from film that had yet been affected (it's like a virus because the fumes will affect the rest of the film in storage.) Cold storage is vital to protect celluloid acetate film. Unfortunately many institutions don't have the resources to properly store their collections in humidity and temperature controlled vaults. We were lucky and obtained a federal grant that allowed us to address the issue quickly.

 

You can tell when film is degrading long before the destruction by the vinegar smell (the acetic acid) and hence the name, 'vinegar syndrome.' The acetic acid fumes are also a health hazard. https://www.imagepermanenceinstitute.org/resources/newsletter-archive/v12/vinegar-syndrome

[Orient XI]

Ummm...Agfa Color dates back to 1932...

 

Indeed it does but Agfa lost the Patent rights to the process as a result of the Third Reich losing WW2 (c.f. Reid making post-war Leica copies). Many firms took advantage of this and produced more advanced examples using other colour couplers whose coupling products with developer oxidation products better matched the spectral response of the emulsion layer.

[adan]

Ummm...Agfa Color dates back to 1932...

 

I did say "generally available." For the still photography market, what would you guess the market share was for Agfacolor vs. Kodachrome between 1935 and 1941?

 

So far as I see, Agfacolor until WW2 was primarily a studio motion picture process (note the word "primarily") - and thus competing more with Technicolor (which was in fact Joseph Goebbels' target in pressing for expanded development and production of Agfacolor processes).

 

1932 - ? Agfacolor (original) was a screened film similar to Dufaycolor and Autochrome plates (which explains the necessity for the weird three-color "Agfacolor" filters Leitz made for the 73mm Hektor and 50mm Summar in the period).

 

http://p2.la-img.com/427/12747/3634205_1_l.jpg

 

1936 - Agfacolor "Neu" was Agfa's first self-contained true color film (in the sense that one didn't need special gear to take or view the picture afterwards). And does get credit for being the first with dye couplers incorporated into the film, as Orient XI points out (and thus the conceptual basis for all the color films, except Kodachrome, that followed).

 

Available? Yes.

 

Photos by Thomas NeumannCamera: Leica. Film: Agfa color neuIn... | Pictures

 

Generally available in the overwhelmingly big market called the US of A? Not really (and only as marketed through Agfa's US subsidiary Ansco, as Anscocolor.)