batmobile Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1 Posted February 20, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have just made a decision on this and it was not what I expected. I was all lined up to buy the M240 and processed a few DNGs and got reasonable but not spectacular B&W. I then spent time once again with Monochrom files and the difference was substantial. The files have a longer scale, can be made to look more organic for this reason and have a malleability that M240 files cant match. I really was set to get the M240. As a camera, it makes much more sense for general use with the wide range of improvements over the M9 (esp battery life, sealing and speed) , but when it came to the crunch, the deciding factor was the quality of the B&W images I can make. Consequently, I bought a monochrom yesterday. Did I feel a little silly buying a camera with an LCD no better than the $30 1MP camera I bought for a laugh eight years ago? Yes, but ignoring the LCD which will be used only for menu functions and a few other deficiencies, it is clearly the right choice for me as the vast majority of my work is B&W. Working with the files is very much a learning experience but I have been able to produce files that would sit alongside film images quite nicely, as well as a variety of looks that are much more digital. I can already see that the files from my CV 35 1.2 II are 'nicer' than those from the 35 lux FLE I tried in the store, due to lower contrast. My 35 Summarit-M and 24 Lux are not with me now, but I know they are going to suit this camera very nicely. Sure, I'd love a M240 for colour, but for B&W, if you really are used to the scale and subtlety possible with film, the Monochrom is very much the better camera IMO. Of course very digital files are equally possible... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 Hi batmobile, Take a look here M240 or Monochrom for B&W: A personal Perspective. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 20, 2013 Share #2 Posted February 20, 2013 Couldn't agree more. And what is the objection against an M8 or M9 in the bag for the occasional colour shot for your wife ? Those are pretty good cameras in their own right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 20, 2013 Share #3 Posted February 20, 2013 Ditto. I was very sceptical about this camera initially... but I now find myself reaching for it first in preference to my M9P.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted February 20, 2013 Share #4 Posted February 20, 2013 I made the same decision and got an M-Monochrom last September. It's unbeatable for B&W, and provides robust files with astounding gradation. Although it's also possible to make good B&W images with the M9 or M8 or other cameras, as I noted in my my brief M-Monochrom review, it's simply much easier to do so with the M-Monochrom, which provides much greater flexibility in how you can process the files. —Mitch/Paris Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted February 20, 2013 Share #5 Posted February 20, 2013 Same decision here just picked up a Monochrom a few days ago. It is quite nice not having to think about converting the color image in the end every time. The high ISO is fantastic and even at high ISOs the noise is very pleasing and almost gives a different artistic effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted February 20, 2013 Share #6 Posted February 20, 2013 Has the M240 really been fully tested for this comparison ? I expect the same answer but have we seen enough to really conclude atb this stage ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted February 20, 2013 Share #7 Posted February 20, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think so — and Jono Slack has stated the same view, having shot with both cameras. —Mitch/Paris Paris au rythme de Basquiat and Other Poems [download link for book project] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted February 20, 2013 Share #8 Posted February 20, 2013 It is interesting you would write this post today, as I have just been contemplating what equipment to take along on a vacation trip. I had thought that, no matter how much I love my Monochrom, I could leave it at home and take my M9 (or M, if it arrives by late March.) I had rationalized I could always convert color to B+W. And then I had an almost visceral reaction, and determined I would rather leave one lens behind and take the two camera bodies*, as it is now IMPERATIVE to take the Monochrom. For me, the Monochrom has become, I believe, the most satisfying camera I have ever owned. And it only takes black and white images! And I love color! No matter what complaints we might have about various things Leica does, or fails to do, the Monochrom really is something special, isn't it? *The Monochrom weighs less than some large Leica lenses, so can be substituted for one, if weight/space is a concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted February 20, 2013 Based on a number of M240 DNGs and Monochrom DNGs the difference seemed quite obvious, regardless of subject. The M240 files felt like working with my Canon 5D III files and neither were anything like the Monochrom's. I think its very simply a colour CMOS vs CCD with no bayer array 'thing', which evidently fundamentally affects what you have to work with. Most of my camera kit is 200 miles away from me now and so I am not able to play with the filters I use on film, but even without, some basic LR work can work wonders on these files in a few minutes. A lot is about taste. I think colour files can be more readily converted to produce 'quick impact', but the absolute potential of the files is lower if you want to really push them around (and make them very large). The MM files perhaps take more work but you can keen on going with them and retain good tonality where the colour files start to either break up, or just end up looking crude and inorganic. I guess this is what a lot of people cannot grasp about the Monochrom (and I was one of them) is that their flexibility is breathtaking. The DNGs generally look nasty out of the camera and although you have to work for it, they can go pretty well anywhere you want them to. FWIW, I agree that the Monochrom images can be so sharp and detailed that they feel particularly digital with regard to 'cleanliness', but a bit of added grain sorts that out in no time. My personal requirement was to be able to work primarily in digital going forwards but only if this allowed tonality and an organic quality that I love about film. Its not about looking like film, but that I happen to like the look of film more than digital B&W. The Monochrom files allow me to produce organic images in many lighting situations, but highlight clipping is something one has to be very mindful of. While the shadows can be pulled up an enormous amount, I will still at times carry an MP body around with me for when I know the contrast range is just too much for the sensor and darkroom prints might yield a more sensitive result. PS The little Jacob Aue Sobol print included in the box advertises the white wall printing service using Baryta paper quite well, but boy its expensive (same price as a master printer making a wet print). Has the M240 really been fully tested for this comparison ?I expect the same answer but have we seen enough to really conclude atb this stage ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 20, 2013 Share #10 Posted February 20, 2013 PS The little Jacob Aue Sobol print included in the box advertises the white wall printing service using Baryta paper quite well, but boy its expensive (same price as a master printer making a wet print). ..... having not had an inkjet printer for years and completely given up printing photos the MM images were so good I HAD TO buy an epson 3880 and produce some large images on baryta myself..... and the results are fantastic...... my father who was a technical photographer all his life and spent thousands of hours in darkrooms hand producing high quality prints was amazed at the results...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted February 20, 2013 Share #11 Posted February 20, 2013 I couldn't agree more with the above posters. I've not been missing colour one little bit since I traded my M9-P in against the MM. I find myself really wanting to step up to the plate with this camera - its simplicity and singularity of purpose are definite strengths for me. I attach a photograph I took yesterday in Glasgow - MM and 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE, with an orange B+W filter. I just love the way this camera handles subtleties of tone. Best wishes all, Colin Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/198704-m240-or-monochrom-for-bw-a-personal-perspective/?do=findComment&comment=2248640'>More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted February 20, 2013 Share #12 Posted February 20, 2013 I couldn't agree more with the above posters. I've not been missing colour one little bit since I traded my M9-P in against the MM. I find myself really wanting to step up to the plate with this camera - its simplicity and singularity of purpose are definite strengths for me. I attach a photograph I took yesterday in Glasgow - MM and 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE' date=' with an orange B+W filter. I just love the way this camera handles subtleties of tone. Best wishes all, Colin[/quote'] Very nice picture! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasauge Posted February 20, 2013 Share #13 Posted February 20, 2013 Mitch, absolutely great: your book "Paris au rythme de Basquiat and Other Poems" Thank you Hans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted February 20, 2013 Share #14 Posted February 20, 2013 In April '12 I ordered an MP ALC to add to my M7 - this was just before the Monochrom was released. Very shortly after placing the order, I left the country and did not return until early July, which coincided with arrival of the MP. Since then I have of course wondered whether I should have cancelled the MP in favour of a Monochrom. Each time I come to the conclusion that I enjoy the whole film workflow and results so much that doubts are put to rest. As long as I can achieve tonal gradation as in a shot like this below, taken last week, b&w film remains for me a better vehicle. I sometimes think that if I were ever to succumb to the siren lure of digital b&w such that a Monochrom became imperative, it would be my M9 that would be sacrificed. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/198704-m240-or-monochrom-for-bw-a-personal-perspective/?do=findComment&comment=2248813'>More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted February 20, 2013 Share #15 Posted February 20, 2013 I would love a monochrome to be honest. I shoot 99% in B&W and suspect at some point I will buy one. I do have a few monochrome DNG's l'll have a play in LR they were taken at Mayfair when I took the 50 APO out for a spin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 21, 2013 Share #16 Posted February 21, 2013 To answer the original question-I'll tell you later this year when I own both M and MM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted February 21, 2013 Share #17 Posted February 21, 2013 I would like to see the day and not too far down the road, when Leica will offer an upgrade program to convert the M9/M9-P to an MM. This will come in handy for those who purchase the M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaujee Posted April 11, 2013 Share #18 Posted April 11, 2013 I couldn't agree more with the above posters. I've not been missing colour one little bit since I traded my M9-P in against the MM. I find myself really wanting to step up to the plate with this camera - its simplicity and singularity of purpose are definite strengths for me. I attach a photograph I took yesterday in Glasgow - MM and 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE, with an orange B+W filter. I just love the way this camera handles subtleties of tone. Best wishes all, Colin I cannot stop looking at this photo. The tones, grey, lighting, etc... Beautiful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted April 11, 2013 Share #19 Posted April 11, 2013 I now know what you mean. I sold my M9 in advance of receiving the M that I am waiting on. I have been shooting film (and a Nex 6) for the last couple months, but this week I rented an M Monochrom. It is truly amazing what kind of images the MM delivers. Under normal shooting conditions they are sharp, clean and have beautiful tonal gradation. It seems to have much better dynamic range than the M9 (I'm sure someone can confirm or deny this) and the files are a joy to work with. But what is revolutionary for me is the ability to capture images in poor lighting indoors at up to 10,000 ISO that hold together very well with some noise, but it is clean, homogenous noise/grain. It completely changes what I can do shooting indoors and with poor light. I'm hooked and I will buy one tomorrow. I don't know if I will now take delivery of my M. I'll make that decision when my dealer calls me. But, I do know I want to have a M Monochrom in my bag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dant Posted February 10, 2014 Share #20 Posted February 10, 2014 Any updates to this thread with reference to the M240 doing poor BW work? I'd like to see some side by side BW examples of the MM vs the M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.