Colour space and Monochrom files

[Guest WPalank]

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It's no hassle - But whatever works works.

 

It has everything to do with the new user, who quite understandably is confused about this going in and out of spaces.

Their next questions: "Why, When , Whatfore?" when it just doesn't do squat.

jaap, you and my father should get together as you never back down (I know, I know, I'm revealing issues here )

 

I processed an image in ACR under Prophoto , fiddled with a bunch of sliders. Then processed one in Gamma 2.2 with the same settings. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

 

Folks, Lab does NOT create a better image with less artifacts than ProPhoto. Set up ACR if using CS whatever to give you a 16 bit (should have no argument) ProPhoto and at the very least Adobe 1998 file. Stay within that space to the bloody end as it is a waste of time zipping in and out of color spaces and completely unnecessary.

That way you can concentrate on the image (which everyone is forgetting here) and not worrying about his "fiddling" as you only need to save your preferences once.

 

At the end, resize (stay in 16 bit) add sharpening [whatever way you see fit]. Convert to jpg sRGB for web. If you have an Epson Printer for example, print in 16 bit ProPhoto, as the Printer can reach into areas of this huge space. No voodoo necessary.

 

πlease jaap, don't go off tangentally on sharpening, please start a new thread.

[jaapv]

Well, my first Monochrom shots are from May 2012, and I got my own camera a few weeks later so I am a bit puzzled by new user remark.... Actually I rather like using LR4 for the Monochrom ( about the only thing I like about Lightroom)... Which keeps me in Prophoto anyway. And I only said that IF one changes the colour space LAB will give less artefacts. The only reason for bringing it up...Nothing like "better than" as you suggest. It is not my idea to change spaces- the default by CS6 is a grayscale (I think I'll shoot Adobe a mail to ask why)( yes- I know primer one to change them in ACR..), and SEP wants RGB - so there you are. Sharpening? Not interested for Monochrom shots. Rather basic.

 

William, we both know there are valid arguments on both sides. Let's stop bickering.

[Guest WPalank]

Hi William, I have a couple questions about your use of Imageprint. You keep your files im the ProPhoto space all the way. For monochrom images do you use a color or gray scale IP profile? And with your workflow, are you getting good softproofing from within IP?

 

From the IP user manual and from talking to their tech support I'd developed a different workflow, but am curious about yours.

 

Hi eru,

 

I do my Soft-proofing in CS6 through the normal soft-proofing mode because it always gets me so close. In fact, I can't remember having to do a reprint ever unless I screwed up on size or orientation (completely my fault). Then if there is a problem, I can work on it right there without going in and out of applications.

Unfortunately, I was using the previous version of IP. In that iteration of the software, there were only a few paper profiles that allowed soft proofing.

Downloaded the newest software and updated to Mountain Lion only a couple of weeks ago. First off, their is no improvement in the prints, they were always perfect to begin with. But as many on other Forums have said, the new Print Module design which has been revamped is so much simpler and intuitive.

I will have to do a Monochrom print in the next couple of days for a client and will give the new soft proofing a go within the application if available in Greyscale with the Baryta paper I use.

Yes, I always save off a Master TIFF in 16 bit. Every once in a while, if there is a specific nuance I want to check, I even save out a 16 bit TIFF with an adjustment Layer or two. IP even supports printing Layered TIFFs.

Remarkable Application, worth every penny!

[erudolph]

Hi eru,

 

I even save out a 16 bit TIFF with an adjustment Layer or two. IP even supports printing Layered TIFFs.

Remarkable Application, worth every penny!

 

Thanks William! I was using IP 8 and have been using IP 9 for a while. It's a wonderful application. Didn't realize it supported layers though... thanks for that info!

 

In the past IP support recommended sending grayscale images to their RIP with a Gray L profile, for best soft-proofing. I'll check their voluminous user manual for version 9. :-)

[Guest WPalank]

Well, my first Monochrom shots are from May 2012, and I got my own camera a few weeks later so I am a bit puzzled by new user remark...

 

Again jaap, read this permalink which is dated Feb. 13, 2013. 2 weeks ago.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-post-processing-forum/272716-colour-space-monochrom-files.html#post2318849

 

You have admitted that you have been working in 8 bit as you felt it was the only way possible. Read your own writing please. So you have been using the less damaging and sophisticated and dare I say more eloquent way of processing for only 2 weeks. that is my point!!

 

I have been working in ProPhoto (Lightroom) without the need to zoom in and out of "color spaces" for 8 months now.

 

Just so we are completely clear, 8 months is a larger period of time than 2 weeks. Right?

[Guest WPalank]

And I only said that IF one changes the colour space LAB will give less artefacts..

 

No. It won't bring up MORE artifacts. There are myriads of discussion where people debate Mr. Margulis, I mean smart people. Saying that if one works in the complete Lab Color Space, going in and out, it may be damaging.

I print myself and actually add pixels (up rez a file), sometimes 30%. I see no aberrations even under a loupe. there are no artifacts. If you have a honest friend in the Bay Area, they are welcome to come by and evaluate my prints (not under glass) that I created for a Presentation I gave weeks ago sponsored buy Leica and a local Leica Boutique. Pro Photographers that have worked with Medium Format for years came up to talk to me at the end and during breaks that I had to have created the prints with a Medium Format Body. You have admitted time and time again that you don't print, you work shoulder to shoulder with a professional printer.

[Guest WPalank]

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the default by CS6 is a grayscale (I think I'll shoot Adobe a mail to ask why)

 

I think your inference is, "they must have done it for a reason". At the same time please ask them why the default in CS is sRGB :confused:

Also, when upgrading to the newer versions of CSwhatever, why doesn't Adobe keep my prior settings (prophoto), along with other settings I change and save off as "My working space" as a sticky?????

Again, folks, this is the working space within the Photoshop Module and not ACR.

Folks go to Meny>Edit>Color Settings ("Working Spaces">RGB). Many of you will find you are working in sRGB.

 

Oh wait. I've got a Lightroom Users Group meeting this Tuesday at the Adobe Campus in San Francisco run by two of the Chief Developers of Lightroom. One I can call a personal friend who I have a cell phone and personal email for.

 

 

Or maybe i can shoot Zorana Gee a message. I have presented for her Photoshop Group and employees. She' one of the two top developers for Adobe. On most of the videos.

 

Actually, I'm kind of burnt by the naysayers and non-appreciaters. So send Adobe a general message which will be read and answered by a guy reading a script in Mumbai. You think I'm lying?

 

Adios

 

And please jaap, closely read my replies.

 

PalankPhoto is now available for Private consultations only especially after the exciting thing that will be happening this week. Can't talk about it yet.

All proceeds go to the Tinitus Foundation.

 

Sorry, had to break up my post as the Forum App told me I was using to many pictures????

[jaapv]

That is not my interference, I am genuinely interested in why. As you are well connected, you are better placed to find out.

[Guest WPalank]

Thanks William! I was using IP 8 and have been using IP 9 for a while. It's a wonderful application. Didn't realize it supported layers though... thanks for that info!

 

In the past IP support recommended sending grayscale images to their RIP with a Gray L profile, for best soft-proofing. I'll check their voluminous user manual for version 9. :-)

 

Thanks for the heads up. Haven't had a chance to read the new manual as I thought most of the new work was on the new interface. Very intuitive and Mac-like.

 

I just profiled a new monitor and have to do a few test prints before doing a large print for a client (B&W). I look forward to giving the new recommendation a try. Thanks again.

[erudolph]

Hey William, I scanned a pdf of the manual and didn't find the info I was looking for (doesn't mean it's not there), so I emailed colorbyte and Irena verifies that in v9 as in v8, Gray L is recommended as source profile for grayscale printing.

 

fwiw,

[Guest WPalank]

OK,

Yeah, I think you have to use it, haven't made a print in a while. will no by the end of the day. But you literally only change that just before your print. so you can keep a Greyscale in PP 16 to the absolute blood end.