theboch Posted March 3, 2013 Share #81 Posted March 3, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) This thread is unbelievable... :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 Hi theboch, Take a look here Managing Viewing the Best from M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Thomas Chen Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share #82 Posted March 3, 2013 This thread is unbelievable... :-) Hr. Theboch, Welcome back to the "unbelievable world" ! Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share #83 Posted March 3, 2013 It will never arrive, because in the parallel universe of this thread your poor coconut is going to fall from the edge of the world. But anyhow - you're a brave guy. Really Mike Mike, Thank you for coming! At least I've learned something from you, a metaphor nothing to do with photography. All the best, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share #84 Posted March 3, 2013 the first thing you need is a tripod. Then look up everything that has been said about the M9, because the critical independant tests, such as Sean Reid, show that the M240 isn't any better than the M9 at the optimum settings. Steve Steve, Thank you for coming. Yes, a steady tripod and a shutter release cable are the must. I trust that Leica will come up with a better Raw-to-JPEG convertor than M9, she is making some efforts to refine the firmware. Besides, M240 has some fantastic features that M9 doesn't offer. Best Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted March 3, 2013 Share #85 Posted March 3, 2013 I trust that Leica will come up with a better Raw-to-JPEG convertor than M9 This statement is essentially incompatible with the title of this thread "Managing Viewing the Best from M240" Because it suggests you need that converter to get the best out of the M 240, but it is impossible to get the best using the on camera converter. You will have to use the DNG. Since you like quotes, here is a recent one from Erwin Puts which reflects this fact: "I took pictures with an almost-production-ready M and could use the RAW processor in Lightroom 4.3. This version opened the RAW M files (I refuse to use JPEG files)" I have sent you a personal message with a full analysis of your arguments, but it has not changed your position at all. You simply keep repeating yourself. Can you tell us something about your motives to be active on this forum? You have written 100 postings. What has this brought you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share #86 Posted March 4, 2013 Bokeh + MTF diagram = better 3D-like rendition? (2) Ladies and Gentlemen, Before I reason and make experiments on some particular Leica lenses featuring image-recording quality that is often compared with three-dimensional rendition, please allow me to present a brief note about “MTF diagram”. Please skip this note if you’ve known something about MTF diagram already. “Bokeh” involves the unsharpness before and behind the sharp “focal plane”, while “MTF diagram” tells us clues about the unsharpness in relation to sharpness “on” the focal plane. The synergy of these two kinds of relationships between unsharpness and sharpness, if manipulated well, could enables Leica lenses to much enrich our photography experiences. The note is a summary extracted from literature as follows: [1] “Black stripes, white stripes”, Olaf Stefanus, Leica Fotographie International, 2007(8), [2] “Bokeh-A Subtle Extra”, Olaf Stefanus, Leica Fotographie International, 2007(8) [3]“MTF diagrams: those seductive curves!”, Erwin Puts, Leica M-Lenses-Their soul and secrets, 2002 (September), pp. 14-17 [4] “Resolution, sharpness and contrast-criteia for lens quality”,Erwin Puts, Leica Fotographie International, 2000(1) [5]How to Read MTF Curves, H. H. Nasse, Carl Zeiss, Camera Lens Division, 2008 (December) The ability of a “lense + camera” to record the details of a motif is its “resolving power”, while the measure of resolving power is “resolution”. However, we cannot see any detail without “contrast”[4]. Camera company employs alternate black/white stripe to measure contrast or sharpness [1]. A chart measuring the contrast to be projected through a lense onto sensor is to test the resolving power of a lense/sensor-or-film combination as shown in Fig. A (source: [4]). Because the basis of comparison is the entire chain of performance rather than only the lense itself [3] Test pattern may consist of various numbers of black-white stripe per millimeter, so called “spatial frequency” per millimeter as shown in Fig B (source: [4]). Leica provides MTF diagram for 5, 10, 20, 40 black-white line pairs per millimeter (lp/mm). More line pairs per mm indicates the finer the details can be reproduced by the lense-sensor combination [3]. The finer the lp/mm structure, the more that contrast is lowered. Therefore, the reduction of contrast is a function of spatial frequency because the contrast in the image is a transfer or modulation of the original contrast. The relation between the original contrast and the reproduced contrast is manifested in the form of a Modulation Transfer Function (MTF) [3] Please see Fig. C (source: Leica website), the MTF diagram of the new Summilux 35mm f/1.4 (with floating elements). The vertical (Y) axis represents the contrast in percentage reproduced by the lense. 100% means a genuine reproduction of original contrast. The horizontal (X) axis indicates the position in the image field. For a full frame image (24mm x 36 mm), point zero is located at the center of image, from this point, 12 mm represents the upper and lower edge of the image; while 18 mm stands for the right and left sides of the image (12 x 2 = 24, 18 x 2 = 36). The furthest distance from the center to the tip of corner is 21 mm [1] As the modulation of a motif contrast is affected by the direction of line pairs structure, MTF diagram always show two curves respectively to show the reproduced contrast % measured from radial (sagittal) and tangential (meridiona) directions as shown in Fig. D (source: [5]). Measurement in the sagittal direction usually has the better modulation transfer [5], thus, be drawn as a solid line. That in the tangential direction is drawn as a dotted line. -to be continued- Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Fig. C MTF diagram of Leica new lense.pdf Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Fig. C MTF diagram of Leica new lense.pdf ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/198348-managing-viewing-the-best-from-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2260371'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 4, 2013 Share #87 Posted March 4, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) And? In Dutch we say : Kicking an opened door open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted March 4, 2013 Share #88 Posted March 4, 2013 Thomas, some remarks 1] You are trying to write a manual on lens properties that is already available 2] You do that in a section of the forum entitled "Digital Post Processing Forum" 3] You do not reply to my two questions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share #89 Posted March 4, 2013 Can you tell us something about your motives to be active on this forum? You have written 100 postings. What has this brought you? Bert, I don't understand your motive for writing this. When somebody say a Leica new product (M240) could be no better than the old one, if you don't get upset and you don't do anything to defense the new Leica product, that evidences, not suggests, you are not at all a M240 prospect customer because you don't care the reputation of M240. My motive? I just want a Leica new product that is better than the predecessor and I'm confident that it will come true. Then will recommend my friends to buy it based on my discourse in this thread, not the previuos one. I also don't understand why you are not confident in Leica? can you tell me what's behind you? As for the DNG conversion, I've already ordered last weekend the Adobe Photoshop CS6 extended postprocessing software according to your advice. Do you have this software in place for further discussion? Calm down, my friend, show me something that you love Leica more than I do. Best Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share #90 Posted March 4, 2013 2] You do that in a section of the forum entitled "Digital Post Processing Forum" I'm responsible to the title of the threas "Managing viewing the best from M240". Digital Post Processing will be something for discussion after I get the M240. Best Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted March 4, 2013 Share #91 Posted March 4, 2013 Bert, ....you are not at all a M240 prospect customer because you don't care the reputation of M240. I also don't understand why you are not confident in Leica? Calm down, my friend, show me something that you love Leica more than I do. Thomas Chen Please do not make assumptions about me or my motives. You can always ask, like I did... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share #92 Posted March 4, 2013 Please do not make assumptions about me or my motives. You can always ask, like I did... Bert, I apologize as I regard you as a good friend and feel sad that you doubt my motive. Best Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 4, 2013 Share #93 Posted March 4, 2013 Thomas, I've followed this thread on and off for some time, and must confess that I don't see the point of it, including your latest post that regurgitates some information on MTF. If I recall correctly, you started off some time ago by stating that you have an M8 but weren't taking any pictures with because it was a "bad camera". Some people responded that one could take very good pictures with the M8. Then you offered to send JPGs by email to several people, and someone responded that, instead of doing that, you should post a few of the JPG to the image the Photo Forum here, so that people could see what were the problems that you had, and could perhaps help you.. As far as I know, you didn't post any pictures, but continued to post incomprehensible or irrelevant statements to this thread. It could be a problem of English, but, in my view, goes deeper than that. As far as the image quality of the M240 is concerned, to which you refer in the last post, it will probably turn out to be better in some respects than that of the M9 and may be worse in other respects. But most of what you write is irrelevant or incomprehensible. As far as I am concerned there is no point in following this thread further. —Mitch/Potomac, MD Paris au rythme de Basquiat and Other Poems [download link for book project] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted March 4, 2013 Share #94 Posted March 4, 2013 Bert, .....and feel sad that you doubt my motive. Thomas Chen I do not, you are making an assumption again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share #95 Posted March 4, 2013 Thomas, If I recall correctly, you started off some time ago by stating that you have an M8 but weren't taking any pictures with because it was a "bad camera". Some people responded that one could take very good pictures with the M8. Paris au rythme de Basquiat and Other Poems [download link for book project] Mitch, Thanks for comments. As for my question about M8, I sent pictures only to Bert for I suppose he can help me answering the question, however, not yet. I didn't send pictures to any other people including you. You know that the cropping factor of M8 that deprives the image of outer field of "Bokeh" rendering. I did taking pictures with M8 for around 200 exposures and converted to use other Leica products that satisfies me better. You are entitled to skip the MTF something because you know it quite well. I have explained to Bert why I do the series of posts concerning "managing viewing the best from M240". They are for some M240 prospects in my part of world. I'm just a pure Leica aficionado who always pursues "the best" defined by myself, nothing else. You don't need to guess my motivation, that's not worthwhile. Perhaps I don't understand the nature and culture of Leica User Forum and I'm adapting. Before I get the M240, I will continue to be active in the thread "Managing viewing the best from M240" and dissapear as soon as the M240 arrives my hand. I do appreciate your care and warm treatment, hopefully my response doesn't offend you. Best Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share #96 Posted March 4, 2013 I do not, you are making an assumption again. Thanks a lot. Very good, then I will keep on discussiong the synery intergrating the "Bokeh" with "MTF daigram" taking some lenses as examples and make experiment using m240 later on. Best Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 4, 2013 Share #97 Posted March 4, 2013 As for the DNG conversion, I've already ordered last weekend the Adobe Photoshop CS6 extended postprocessing software according to your advice. Do you have this software in place for further discussion? Please read up on this software first. Adobe offers excellent tutorials on their site, the books by Scott Kelby (for beginners) and Martin Evening (for advanced users) are mandatory literature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share #98 Posted March 5, 2013 Please read up on this software first. Adobe offers excellent tutorials on their site, the books by Scott Kelby (for beginners) and Martin Evening (for advanced users) are mandatory literature. Mr. Jaap, Thanks a lot for your help. I have already ordered Scott's CS6 book. As for Mr. Evening's book, I will see how much I can digest and practice what is in Scott's. Thanks and Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share #99 Posted March 5, 2013 I have sent you a personal message with a full analysis of your arguments, but it has not changed your position at all. You simply keep repeating yourself. Bert, To cease unnecessary controversy, would you please help me out to assess whether the following statement is appropriate? Or improvement is needed. “I anticipate that M240 features a native Raw-to-Jpeg convertor that is at least a shade better than that of D-Lux 6 (with a CMOS sensor), as such when I put Leica M and R optics on M240 I can be much better off for the result. For “the best” image, I have to go through post-processing to achieve the look I want.” Thanks and Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted March 5, 2013 Share #100 Posted March 5, 2013 I have also followed this bizarre thread and the associated lack of insight ............. There has been too much mental masturbation here and not enough photography Thomas, please go out with your M8, take some photos, and enjoy them (and feel free to share in the Forum) . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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