Rangefinder resurgence

[dannirr]

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It is interesting to read many posts here from peole who have not used rangefinder cameras before, taking the plunge into the M8. Of particular interest are the technical questions that seem very basic at heart - usually focusing related.

 

I am thrilled that more people are getting into the M8 - more buyers means more support from Leica - but I can't help wondering why someone pays a significant amount of money for a change to a system they might not like. Lets face it - rangefinder cameras and the style of photography / working is so different from the SLR/DSLR world and does not suite everyone.

 

There are many, many cheap but good film rangefinder cameras on EBay every day (Yashica etc) - why not buy one and shoot 10 or 20 rolls of film to see if this style of photography works for you before going the M8 route? At worst you'll waste a few bucks, at best you'l love it - buy the M8 and have a fun film rangefinder too.

 

Interested in y'all's thoughts.

 

Danni

[mitchell]

Even if you've never shot a rangefinder before, you know with the M8 you'll get state of the art digital images in a small size.

 

For many who are not hurting for cash, this is enough to take the risk they won't like rangefinder. At worse, they'll have to sell the camera and lens at a small loss.

 

When I bought my M6ttl, I hadn't used a rangefinder for 30 years. But, I knew I wanted it, and I was right. The simplicity was and is a big factor for me. I think you can tell the camera will work for you, just from handling it, and seeing images it produces.

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

[andit]

Hi Danni,

 

I'm one of those people who took the plunge and bought the M8 without previous rangefinder experience. Way back when I started photography, I would have loved to have a Leica, however, when you are young you don't have the financial means. So I got started with a Canon SLR (does anyone remember the T70?). Then once autofocus settled down and was reliable, I switched to a Canon 1n (brilliant camera). As things go, digital also came of age and I switched to a D60 about 5 years ago. This camera has given me exceptional results (can't post them here since they were not taken on Leica equipment). At the end of last year, I seriously needed to look at upgrading - just about the time when Leica announced the M8.

 

Now I had the choice. I could either invest in a 5D, or in the 1DII, which would probably have been the right thing to do. However, I had just gotten a bit of "Canon Fatigue". When Epson announced the Rd-1, I was already seriously considering it, but then when the M8 came out, I knew, this was it...

 

So far, I've just had my M8 a couple of days now, I'm extremely pleased. OK, I still have a lot to get used to and perfect, but this just puts the fun back into photography. IMO Leica have come up with a winning formula here. Just looking by the waiting times for bodies, lenses and just about anything else that they manufacture, I'm really pleased that they are also finally "getting a break". Yes there are issues with the M8, but then that's what you get for pushing technolgy forward.

 

As for focusing goes, I'll get that right in the next few days. In terms of manual focusing, I'm used to using tripod mounted MF, with huge focusing screens and built in magnifiers (where is the fun in that?).

 

For me I think this is what the M8 represents for me - putting the fun back into photography. Making life just a little more spontaneous... Hope this has given you a little more insight into the mind set of atleast one of these crazy folks.

 

Andreas

[dannirr]

Andreas,

 

I agree - it puts the fun into photography, yet is a very serious professional tool. I am pleased you finally got the camera, and are enjoying it.

 

Danni

 

PS - Had a terrific trip to Namibia - have been busy at work so have not done much with the pictures yet - but hope to post a few here within a couple of days.

[Guest sirvine]

Then there are those of us that have been chomping at the bit to get back to rangefinders after so many years of being limited to the digital SLR format. For me, its as much nostalgia for my IIIg as it is a practical, small, exquisite camera.

 

Where I live, I see tourists all the time carrying SLRs with HUGE zoom lenses. They look so uncomfortable, and these are people just taking snapshots in front of monuments. I would imagine many people will convert to rangefinders just due to the low profile format of the bodies now that they are a digital option.

[scjohn]

I have always loved rangefinders and moved into the digital rangefinder world only when I saw an rd-1 for sale second hand sold after about 40 exposures by someone who was interested in trying rangefinders for the first time but did not like it.

 

I'm sure there will be some of that with the M8 too and I just hope peple who "give up" will say "it wasn't for me" instead of saying "most expensive camera with technical problems I ever saw."

[andit]

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Hi Danni,

 

Great news that you had a terrific trip to Namibia. I was actually thinking of you and your family just last week, and was hoping the heat was not to much on you guys. As I'm sure you also saw, Southern Africa is in the worst drought period in 40 years. Vast areas of Zimbabwe, Botswana, Mozambique and South Africa have been declared emergency areas. Maize production in these areas is less than 30% of normal. While I'm used to the heat, this year has been tough on even the locals.

 

Can't wait to see the images you got with your M8's.

 

Andreas

[johnwolf]

Danni,

 

I jumped in after years of Nikon and Canon SLR shooting. I never considered it much of a risk because I knew I could sell the camera and lenses at a modest loss. I got hooked on the D2, and after that there was no turning back.

 

Shooting ten rolls with a Yashica would probably not be the same as shooting with an digital M, especially for those who left film long ago. And part of the initial attraction, I think, is the prospect of shooting with such a distinctive camera, being a part of the M tradition, and all that. If that's superficial, then I guess I'm superficial. It's true that the cost is very high for a start-up Leica user, but I really looked at it as the first step of a lifetime relationship.

 

I'm not sure we can call this a "resurgence," or that we'll ever be able to -- at least not at ten grand for a body and couple of lenses, with no AF or zooms. Seems to me this will always be a niche camera for pros and serious enthusiasts.

 

John

[ken_tanaka]

Danni,

 

I'm not sure we can call this a "resurgence," or that we'll ever be able to -- at least not at ten grand for a body and couple of lenses, with no AF or zooms. Seems to me this will always be a niche camera for pros and serious enthusiasts.

 

John

 

I completely agree, John. Certainly to anyone who spent much time around the Leica and Rangefinder forums it looked, at least for a while, as if the camera world's center of gravity shifted to the M8. Several years ago on the original Leica forum there were long discussions regarding what the impact of a "digital M" would be on rangefinder photography. Some predicted that center-of-gravity shift while others, including me, predicted that such a camera would garner great interest for a few months but would ultimately join the ranks of cameras in the "Other" category. That's pretty much what's happening. M8 chatter has rather quickly diminished. Cameras are no longer very scarce. The fact is that world of photography has long since moved on past the rangefinder camera. The M8's price and its limited features and functionality will keep it firmly placed in the "Other" category.

 

Danni: Your original musing concerned why rangefinder newcomers don't take a less costly initiation path than jumping directly to an M8. Your question assumes facts not in evidence. Yes, I know that quite a few people have leaped directly from a dslr to an M8. Many of these folks, based at least on their conversations at forums like this, seem to be camera enthusiasts, rather than photographers, who would find a way to buy any new and exotic camera. Others seem to just want to experiment with something different than a reflex camera but better than a noisy p&s. To that end, the M8 is basically the only digital destination today.

 

But I think there actually are many M8 buyers who have been long-time rangefinder users and have been waiting for a Leica digital M. I am delighted that Leica really managed to squeeze out an M8 and, with reservations, have been thoroughly enjoying my personal "resurgence" with an M camera. When I bought an M7 several years ago I was looking for a simple, almost primitive, camera that was well built but would force me to reconnect with more of the hands-on craftsmanship of photography. The M7 helped me achieve that goal but, for me, film is dead. So the M7 got less and less use. The M8 has fulfilled the complete bill for me and I suspect that I am the more typical M8 buyer.

 

One other matter to consider. The M8 seems --and I emphasize that this is very anecdotal-- to be attracting women as buyers. Since the camera's introduction I have seen more forum commentary, and a bit more online photos, by women shooting with an M8. Now, of course, women tend not to be the gear fetishists that young men often are. They're not inclined to just throw such large sums at such whimsical toys. But I think that quite a few women devoted to photography find the M8's small size and superb lenses real attractions. It's a terrific camera to carry.

 

Well, that's my opinion on a Sunday afternoon.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Personally i don't fit in most categories. i look for the best lenses i can get my hands on than fit the body to that. In this case it would be the M8 be it rangefinder, DSLR or whatever anyone wants to call it , I'm simple after image. Annoyances, fit and stuff that really don't affect the image i will just work around them but i do like the M system for size ,weight and most other reasons folks are buying them but like any Pro we have to sell our images to clients and so far the M 8 is doing a great job of that. So I am pleased for that and on other fronts. i will continue to customize camera's to just fit me better though. like the grip and filter adapter, hoods and such . This stuff is surface stuff but it does help me work better overall and that counts too.

[London Lad]

One of my interests is stereo music reproduction. I use Naim equipment and see a lot of similarity between Naim stereo components and Leica rangefinder cameras.

 

Naim audio equipment would not appear to be the most technically advanced on paper and requires time and attention to detail in order to give its best but it has a feel or spirit to it that sets it apart from other stereo components. I feel the same way about my M8.

[hiphop]

25 years ago I had the first M in my hands. This was the last time I had a rangefinder in my hands before buying the M8.

I still remember when I had this M in hands, it was something different. I never forgot this experience. After that I had various camera and slowy I came to a point where I was not taking any picture at all during my numerous travelling.

Few years ago I came back to photos through the digital door. Slowly but surely I started to gain interest but was reluctant with technology and complexity of the cameras offered on the mariket. Of course they are fantastic tools but the pation is missing (at least for me).

Then, I saw the M8....Immediately I knew that it was something for me. It was problably totally crazy but I did not have a single second of regret since I bought it.

Every time I take this camera with me I have a smile in my face. Probably the Leica's effect...

 

Pierre-Olivier

[robertwright]

The M8 for me represents the first time I can work the way I want to work and do digital. I bought an M6 in 2000 wondering what all the hubub was about with Leica, and had it about a week and freaked out, I just could not get used to it, and I thought, my editors will never accept 35mm anyway so what the heck am I doing? I returned it and bought a mamiya 7, which I kind of liken to the Leica with training wheels, the viewfinder is so big and easy to use. The for about a year on assignment work I made a horrible hash of lots of jobs trying to get used to the rangefinder, the whole bit, tilted horizons, forgetting to focus, being under-lensed, I would get my contacts back and recrop them with paper slide mounts into 6x6 and 6x4.5 to get back what I "thought" I was shooting. But gradually I learned how to "see" and after about a year it was second nature, and that was when I went back and bought another M6 and a few lenses, the genesis of the system I have today in the M8.

 

In the last two years almost all of my clients have gone digital, which meant Canon dslr's, and I have been patiently waiting for a digital rangefinder, and really missing that way of working. So for me the M8 is full circle, finally a rangefinder I can use professionally for almost all of my clients. For some things, yes it is not so suited, although I do try to make do most times, and then sometimes the dslr comes out. But the M8 is with me everyday, and it is also my bread and butter camera. Happy times.

[Guest stnami]

Cameras are cameras and are used for different needs.

I have a series to do that film and a simple/primative camera such as a Bessa L will do the job better. It is based on the older generation in run down towns, using film leads to a better dialogue and the people are more at ease than with a digital camera no matter what type. They actually inquire about whether it is colour or B&W that you are using and why not its about them not me

Rangefinder resurgence

.... haven't heard alot about this out in the streets the P&S and DSLR reign supreme

[smokysun]

it is interesting, though, to see what is happening with dslr's. i compared the size and weight of the rebel xti with the m8. it is an inch thicker but half an inch less in length, and it weighs less than the m8! put an r 28 2.8 on it and you've got a pretty small package. also the xti seems to be quite a bit quieter than the d20 and might be comparable to the m8. the xti can be had for $700.

 

wayne

[Cindy Flood]

Smokysun said: it is interesting, though, to see what is happening with dslr's. i compared the size and weight of the rebel xti with the m8. it is an inch thicker but half an inch less in length, and it weighs less than the m8! put an r 28 2.8 on it and you've got a pretty small package. also the xti seems to be quite a bit quieter than the d20 and might be comparable to the m8. the xti can be had for $700.

Wayne, I have the xti as a backup to the M8 and I have been using it while the M8 was over in Solms. I have a Contax CZ 28 f/2.8 and Leica R 35 cron and 60 macro. It makes a great little backup kit, but I'm not sure if most would like manual focus on the Xti. It is not like focusing a rangefinder. Also, you are dealing with a 1.6x crop instead of a 1.3x crop....As a backup, it is super. I wouldn't give up my M8 for it, though.

[rob_x2004]

SLR with framelines would work for me, and SLR body that you can see around when you have your eye to the viewfinder rather than being stuck behind regardless of right or left eye shooting.

[RSL]

But I think there actually are many M8 buyers who have been long-time rangefinder users and have been waiting for a Leica digital M.

 

Quite right, Ken. In the sixties and early seventies I walked the streets every evening after dinner and again, most weekends, with my M4 in hand, and shot thousands of frames. When I moved to a place where I couldn't set up a darkroom I sold all my equipment. When digital came along I got back into photography in a big way, but I couldn't really do street work with what was available. Point-and-shoot digitals had what seemed eternally long shutter lags, and carrying a DSLR on the street was like carrying a bazooka. Try shooting unobtrusively with a D2X, or even a D100. I now have an R-D1, and I'm waiting for Leica to fix the M8 so I can buy one.

 

Let's face it, and I'll be excoriated for saying this, but it's true: rangefinder cameras never have been for landscape or architecture or even studio work. If you want to do Ansel then you need an 11 x 14, or at least an 8 x 10. If you want to do formal portraiture or advertising work you need at least a Hasselblad. Rangefinders have always been for street shooting. People who want to do street work are going to flock to the M8 once it's a dependable instrument. I'd never go back to film, and having a rangefinder for the kind of photography I like best is like coming home again.

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[guywalder]

if you hang out in a Leica forum then you are going to hear lots about the M8, its not often that Leica launch new cameras. Mind you, you see the same thing in Nikon forums when they launch something new, or in Canon forums when they do.

I would love to see some figures, but my guess is that the M8 is mostly just tapping into a lot of pent up demand from rangefinder users who have been waiting for a digital option that is less compromised than the RD1.

 

As for why people use rangefinders,

their simplicity: my FM2 is arguably simpler than my M7, simpler to manufacture (mirror mechanism vs rangefinder mechanism), simpler to use (I Always struggle to get the film out of my M7), after all they share exactly the same controls

size/weight: virtually no difference for me between M7 and FM2

noise: one goes 'click' the other goes 'clack'

 

ahh the joys of psychology!

[Guest stnami]

no difference for me between M7 and FM2

...... sure as all you do is change the film and glass, but with this digital caper you have to change the camera as there is a huge difference between the a Nikon 40 digital raw files and the m8 files for those that aspire for clean sharp images. I post process a to change the image so the difference is not as extreme....................

I agree that using a SLR type is easier, the less one has to think about the mechanics of a camera the better, the more time for photography

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Hallo,

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