Muizen Posted January 28, 2013 Share #1 Â Posted January 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am having more and more problems with uncontrolled movements of my hands resulting in blurred photo's. I am using a M9 and Summilux 35 and 50mm; Elmarit 28 F2.8 and 90mm F2.8. I am thinking about possibly selecting a camera body with sensor stabilization that could take my Leica lenses. I would appreciate your advise! Harry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Hi Muizen, Take a look here Leica lenses on a non Leica body. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
taosantamonica Posted January 28, 2013 Share #2 Â Posted January 28, 2013 you might want to look at the olympus om-d-e-m5. it has in body stabilization and with an adapter you can use leica m lenses on it. i don't have any personal experience with that camera but i've heard from a couple of friends that they like using it. you''d be dealing with a crop factor sensor with any of the mirrorless cameras available now that you can use m lenses on. for full frame with stabilization and m lenses you may have to wait awhile. leica r lenses with leitax mounts can work on ff dslr's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted January 28, 2013 Share #3 Â Posted January 28, 2013 Just a thought. If you have the money, buy a MM or the new M240 and crank up the ISO to give you a few extra stops... Â Might give a lot more satisfying results than trying to cope with crop factors and non Leica bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted January 28, 2013 Share #4 Â Posted January 28, 2013 What is with a monopod or a tripod? Does an exposure of 1/1000 give a sharp picture? You tried this already, ok? Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 29, 2013 Share #5  Posted January 29, 2013 I am having more and more problems with uncontrolled movements of my hands resulting in blurred photo's.I am using a M9 and Summilux 35 and 50mm; Elmarit 28 F2.8 and 90mm F2.8. I am thinking about possibly selecting a camera body with sensor stabilization that could take my Leica lenses. I would appreciate your advise! Harry   Hi Harry,  Your best option maybe indeed the Olympus OM-D E-M5. It has an m4/3 sensor with a crop factor of 2. It also has a 5-axis In-Body-Image-Stabilization IBIS that for the most part seems to work exceedingly well. With the OMD, Olympus finally managed to have a competitive sensor as well for the first time. Here are a few examples I shot with my copy.  The first is a hand held shot at 1/3s with the WATE at 18 mm, wide open. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  The second is shot wide open with APO-Summicron 75 mm at ISO 10,000.  The third is shot with the APO-Telyt-R 280/4, wide open, and shows a Canyon Towhee.  Of course, as with any camera, there are some quirks one has to work around:  "Screwy E-M5 IBIS": Theory and evidence: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Connect  OM-D E-M5 a huge disappointment for me...: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review  But I think Jono Slack sums it up quite well, The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - OM-D is Camera of the Year 2012 on DPR, quote:  "Well, although Brian and Jorgen have described it so well, I'll bite too. Several things come to mind.  1. third party lenses For many people the point of mirrorless (at least partly) is to be able to use legacy and third party lenses. The OMD really nailed this with the Image stabilisation working so well on a half press of the shutter - meaning that one can easily manually focus a 300mm lens from the Olympus glory days (or leica or whoever). You can't do this as well with any other mirrorless camera.  2. Sensor Quality µ43 has been plagued with the mediocre Panasonic sensors - the Sony unit in the OMD has transcended the problem, producing fantastic image quality, even at high ISO. If it has an AA filter it's very light, and the images are sharp and sparkly  3. Auto Focus It's incredibly fast - the continuous is not good, but the one shot AF is just incredible - I've used it for surfing shots with a 600mm equivalent lens and nailed pretty much every shot. The touch focus/shoot together with this incredible focusing speed is really good for both tripod mounted macro shooting, and unobtrusive street shooting.  4. Body, ergonomics and size It's a camera - and it feels like one. Sure there's infinite depths of menus if you want them. But it works extremely well as a PASM camera, without ever going in to the menus - it handles really well, added to which it's small and easy to carry - if you want it bigger then put on the grip . . .yes - it's part of a system  As for the poll in dpreview - there sure were a lot of people who voted - nobody would suggest that the OMD is the best selling camera of the lot, so it's not just people supporting the camera they bought. If it were just going to be fanboys boosting their own purchasing decisions then the OMD is not the winner you'd expect (and the D800 certainly not the runner up). I tend to trust thousands of users more than a reviewer!  From a personal point of view, and having watched the poll develop (and thus seeing the also rans and their votes) I would have said that it was a pretty good summary of the year's releases (close runners included the Fuji cameras etc.) It's a pity they don't seem to publish the whole list."  Here Olympus OM-D E-M5 five-axis sensor-shift image stabilization hands-on (video) is a video of IBIS in action.  FAQs are here: E-M5 > Frequently Asked Questions  Olympus OM-D E-M5 Review: Digital Photography Review with a nice diagram of the 5-axis IBIS:  http://1.static.img-dpreview.com/reviews/olympusEM5/images/5axes.jpg?v=1928  Good luck with your decision. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  The second is shot wide open with APO-Summicron 75 mm at ISO 10,000.  The third is shot with the APO-Telyt-R 280/4, wide open, and shows a Canyon Towhee.  Of course, as with any camera, there are some quirks one has to work around:  "Screwy E-M5 IBIS": Theory and evidence: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Connect  OM-D E-M5 a huge disappointment for me...: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review  But I think Jono Slack sums it up quite well, The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - OM-D is Camera of the Year 2012 on DPR, quote:  "Well, although Brian and Jorgen have described it so well, I'll bite too. Several things come to mind.  1. third party lenses For many people the point of mirrorless (at least partly) is to be able to use legacy and third party lenses. The OMD really nailed this with the Image stabilisation working so well on a half press of the shutter - meaning that one can easily manually focus a 300mm lens from the Olympus glory days (or leica or whoever). You can't do this as well with any other mirrorless camera.  2. Sensor Quality µ43 has been plagued with the mediocre Panasonic sensors - the Sony unit in the OMD has transcended the problem, producing fantastic image quality, even at high ISO. If it has an AA filter it's very light, and the images are sharp and sparkly  3. Auto Focus It's incredibly fast - the continuous is not good, but the one shot AF is just incredible - I've used it for surfing shots with a 600mm equivalent lens and nailed pretty much every shot. The touch focus/shoot together with this incredible focusing speed is really good for both tripod mounted macro shooting, and unobtrusive street shooting.  4. Body, ergonomics and size It's a camera - and it feels like one. Sure there's infinite depths of menus if you want them. But it works extremely well as a PASM camera, without ever going in to the menus - it handles really well, added to which it's small and easy to carry - if you want it bigger then put on the grip . . .yes - it's part of a system  As for the poll in dpreview - there sure were a lot of people who voted - nobody would suggest that the OMD is the best selling camera of the lot, so it's not just people supporting the camera they bought. If it were just going to be fanboys boosting their own purchasing decisions then the OMD is not the winner you'd expect (and the D800 certainly not the runner up). I tend to trust thousands of users more than a reviewer!  From a personal point of view, and having watched the poll develop (and thus seeing the also rans and their votes) I would have said that it was a pretty good summary of the year's releases (close runners included the Fuji cameras etc.) It's a pity they don't seem to publish the whole list."  Here Olympus OM-D E-M5 five-axis sensor-shift image stabilization hands-on (video) is a video of IBIS in action.  FAQs are here: E-M5 > Frequently Asked Questions  Olympus OM-D E-M5 Review: Digital Photography Review with a nice diagram of the 5-axis IBIS:  http://1.static.img-dpreview.com/reviews/olympusEM5/images/5axes.jpg?v=1928  Good luck with your decision. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/197121-leica-lenses-on-a-non-leica-body/?do=findComment&comment=2227601'>More sharing options...
dpitt Posted January 29, 2013 Share #6  Posted January 29, 2013 Correct me if I am wrong but it seems there are 3 ways to counter camera movement. I am not sure which is the best. It depends on the subject, lens used, etc.  1. IS: Do not have too much experience except with some Nikon gear. It helps about 2 stops. That is with static objects. If your object moves like with children or wildlife, it does not help much if you can shoot at 1/6  2. Tripod. This helps an 'infinite' number of stops. But can be hard to carry around or position in some places. And some subjects do not give you the time to set up your gear. A monopod might be more helpful/versatile  3. High ISO Limited by noise level. Comfort zone is subjective for most. M9 is limited, M8 even more if you do not like noise in your shots. Best Leica M is now the MM and probably M240. It should be at least 2 stops better than the M9 if it uses a CMOS sensor.  Just my 2 cents Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 29, 2013 Share #7 Â Posted January 29, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would add high shutter speeds for shooting fast moving objects. Also, it helps to have a steady picture in the viewfinder, unaffected by jerkily hand holding the camera, when manually focusing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyedward Posted January 29, 2013 Share #8  Posted January 29, 2013 Just a thought. If you have the money, buy a MM or the new M240 and crank up the ISO to give you a few extra stops... Might give a lot more satisfying results than trying to cope with crop factors and non Leica bodies.  +1. This was my first thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted January 29, 2013 Share #9 Â Posted January 29, 2013 What's wrong with cropping? Â How to become a sharp picture, if the camera is moving? Perhaps the proposal of movement compensation (Omega) is besides using a tripod a good solution, for this case. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muizen Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share #10  Posted January 30, 2013 What's wrong with cropping?  How to become a sharp picture, if the camera is moving? Perhaps the proposal of movement compensation (Omega) is besides using a tripod a good solution, for this case. Jan  Jan, I would like to understand in what way "cropping" can reduce the effect of hand movements of the camera while shooting? Also why you refer to "Omega". Thanks, Harry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muizen Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share #11 Â Posted January 30, 2013 Also, it helps to have a steady picture in the viewfinder, unaffected by jerkily hand holding the camera, when manually focusing. Â K-H: Can you please explain further what you mean when you say: "that having a steady picture etc..." I do not understand you advice. Sorry! Thanks, Harry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muizen Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share #12 Â Posted January 30, 2013 I want to thank K-H for his very useful extensive answer and suggestions on the Om-d-e-m5 and also Taosantamonica for his advice to have a look at this camera too. What worries me about this camera is reading that the IBIS does not seem to be too reliable? I am studying info on this aspect of the camera! Â Coming from Leica M9 makes it difficult to be satisfied with another camera. I see one other option: the FujiFilm X Pro1. I could continue using my Leica glass on this camera (but have no anti-shake) and purchase their zoom lenses with built-in anti shake. But this would leave me with too many lenses of which a number will then hardly be used. Â However I feel that selling my M9 and in addition my Leica lenses: Summilux 35 and 50mm, Elmarit 28 and 90mm would be a rather complicated operation! But in doing so successfully I could concentrate on the X Pro1. Harry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 30, 2013 Share #13  Posted January 30, 2013 K-H: Can you please explain further what you mean when you say: "that having a steady picture etc..."I do not understand you advice. Sorry! Thanks, Harry   Well, when you look through the viewfinder while manually focusing your inadvertent body and hand movements are reflected by the image in the viewfinder through jumping around. That makes it harder to frame and focus. When you have IBIS enabled, then as soon as you half press the shutter button the camera counteracts these inadvertent movements and the image freezes. One gets a very steady view, no shakiness at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 30, 2013 Share #14  Posted January 30, 2013 I want to thank K-H for his very useful extensive answer and suggestions on the Om-d-e-m5 and also Taosantamonica for his advice to have a look at this camera too.What worries me about this camera is reading that the IBIS does not seem to be too reliable? I am studying info on this aspect of the camera!  Coming from Leica M9 makes it difficult to be satisfied with another camera. I see one other option: the FujiFilm X Pro1. I could continue using my Leica glass on this camera (but have no anti-shake) and purchase their zoom lenses with built-in anti shake. But this would leave me with too many lenses of which a number will then hardly be used.  However I feel that selling my M9 and in addition my Leica lenses: Summilux 35 and 50mm, Elmarit 28 and 90mm would be a rather complicated operation! But in doing so successfully I could concentrate on the X Pro1. Harry   I find the camera very reliable, especially when focusing manually. It seems to have some quirkiness though in particular with autofocus that one occasionally needs to work around. For example if you take an image of an apple in a tree with the kit lens in autofocus mode it might insist to focus on the branches and not the apple.. Well, with direct manual focus overwrite enabled one can manually focus on the apple. Once manual focus is approximately achieved the autofocus can take over again and do its job correctly focusing on the apple indeed.  I personally have not experienced yet the shutter shock issue nor the reported fuzziness for exposure times between 1/60 and 1/120 of a second. But others have. I will deal with that if it happens to my camera. I don't want to scare you away from this camera option but felt it's good to know about certain potential issues before making a purchasing decision.  You have a beautiful set of Leica lenses. BTW, I also have these lenses and just checked whether the 28 mm would exhibit a red edge on the OMD camera. I could not see any.  Of course, because of the crop factor of 2x, your lenses will behave differently. The 28 mm will have the FOV for example of a very sharp 56 mm lens on full frame. That's where the WATE 16-18-21 mm comes in handy. It doesn't seem to show a red edge either on this camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted January 30, 2013 Share #15  Posted January 30, 2013 Jan,I would like to understand in what way "cropping" can reduce the effect of hand movements of the camera while shooting? Thanks, Harry  I answered to the advice to buy the new Leica, to stay with the full frame format. With a crop camera you only use a part of the picture your Leica-lens produces. Of course the part in the center of the image circle.  The Omega-proposal of k-hawinkler is a micro four thirds camera. With this camera you use your Leica lenses AND - because the IS is inside the camera - have image stabilization too.  IBIS means in body image stabilization, so working on the sensor (not inside the lens). Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muizen Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share #16  Posted January 31, 2013 I answered to the advice to buy the new Leica, to stay with the full frame format. With a crop camera you only use a part of the picture your Leica-lens produces. Of course the part in the center of the image circle.  The Omega-proposal of k-hawinkler is a micro four thirds camera. With this camera you use your Leica lenses AND - because the IS is inside the camera - have image stabilization too.  IBIS means in body image stabilization, so working on the sensor (not inside the lens). Jan  Jan: I can't find a camera named "Omega" you are referring at. Could you please help me. Thanks! Harry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted January 31, 2013 Share #17 Â Posted January 31, 2013 I meant this one: Om-d-e-m5, the same camera as k-hawinkler proposed to you. My idea for you was to try to compensate the movement. Others proposed to use fast exposure times with high iso. The drawback is the crop factor and the missing rangefinder. Â With the Ricoh GXR M-mount I have a similar configuration. It works fine with focus confirmation and Hoodman loupe. It has no image stabilization. I never had an M, so I don't miss the "meetzoeker". Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted January 31, 2013 Share #18 Â Posted January 31, 2013 With any of these EVF cameras, even the ones with peaking, you have to click a zoom button to get fine focus. On windy days I have trouble holding the camera still enough to focus while the EVF is zoomed. If you have noticeable hand shake, you might have a very hard time just focusing these cameras. Â I've been using the NEX-6 since November while I wait for the new M, and although I like live-view for macro work, I really miss the rangefinder for normal photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.