mjh Posted January 26, 2013 Share #41 Posted January 26, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) It will probably have some extended ISO over the M9 sensor, and probably some other improvements as well, but they will be evolutionary and incremental now rather than revolutionary and a huge leap in quality, sensor size, file size, etc. etc. etc. Formerly, were used to seeing quantum leaps in technology progression from generation to generation, but the technology was actually quite mature with the introduction of the M9, and I think those days are passed. The M9 is basically an M8 on steroids; technologically there isn’t much to differentiate the M9 from the M8. The new M, on the other hand, is a completely new design that has little in common with the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Hi mjh, Take a look here The average aged won't buy a M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 26, 2013 Share #42 Posted January 26, 2013 Leica owners average age is about 48 at this moment. Sorry. I bought my my first Leica when I was 30.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted January 26, 2013 Share #43 Posted January 26, 2013 I'm going to go out on a limb here. There will undoubtedly be some difference and improvements in the new sensor. It will probably have some extended ISO over the M9 sensor, and probably some other improvements as well, but they will be evolutionary and incremental now rather than revolutionary and a huge leap in quality, sensor size, file size, etc. etc. etc. Formerly, were used to seeing quantum leaps in technology progression from generation to generation, but the technology was actually quite mature with the introduction of the M9, and I think those days are passed. Because of that, I suspect that the features set (live view, etc.) is really where the M-240 will be marketed rather than a "blow you out of the water" sensor-image quality difference. Here's the way I see it. The M9 sensor performs similar to the one in the original 5D (I owned one.) My D700 was noticeably better than the 5D. I now have a D600 and it is quite noticeably better than the D700, especially in terms of exposure range. The D600 is light years ahead of the 5D I had. The M9 sensor is now two, maybe three generations behind what is currently available. If we see the same jump as we saw from the 5D to something even close to the D600 or 5Dmk III it's a pretty darn big leap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerGeograph2010 Posted January 26, 2013 Share #44 Posted January 26, 2013 Sorry, but this thread is bullshit! "iphone-generation", no interest in new technology, "we, the old (rich, snobbish) people against the youth"... yeah, sure! in two years every 8-year-old boy plays with a "M" because its so cheap. And all the modern technic in it! Interesting for the youth, but not for the old man. He will die with the M9 (and of course with his collection of untouched M-Bodies). You miss the truth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 26, 2013 Share #45 Posted January 26, 2013 I guess I at 39 I would be considered middle-aged. I love Leica rangefinders and bought the M8 as soon as it shipped and same with the M9. I am on top of the waiting list for the M and I am anxiously awaiting the release. It is a very expensive camera and while I can afford it without going broke, I feel guilty spending that much money in a way. I just talked to a friend about this and I have decided that I do not want to own any more cameras than I currently own. So in short, if the new M does everything the M9 does and more, I will buy it and sell my M9. If it does some things better, but suffers at low ISO and good light compared to the M9 CCD sensor, then I will stick with the M9. I really expect the M to be better in any respect, otherwise I'll wait for the M350 or whatever stupid name the next iteration gets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted January 26, 2013 Share #46 Posted January 26, 2013 I am 19, and yes I only use leica for a year now... but it's been great thusfar! Although I think, sad enough it's not in the budget of a lot of my age... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 26, 2013 Share #47 Posted January 26, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) [...] Also, the youth of today is broke and the financial future for a large percentage of them is looking pretty bleak. [...] The "large percent" is not Leica's market for the M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 26, 2013 Share #48 Posted January 26, 2013 I am 19, and yes I only use leica for a year now... but it's been great thusfar! Although I think, sad enough it's not in the budget of a lot of my age... I was 19 years old when I went from an inexpensive Petri to a Leica. It hurt financially but ultimately I learned two things - first, I sure did not need the Leica after all, and second, I had no excuse regarding the photos I made; any errors were mine. I have a ratio of errors-to-success of about 1000:1 now at 67 years-old. Carry on, sir, and be happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 27, 2013 Share #49 Posted January 27, 2013 I think Leica know their market, and it certainly isn't professional photographers! Most pros I know are struggling - too much competition, stingy clients, and people with fancy cameras willing to do it for "fun" (though the client usually get what they "pay" for). So the pros I know more and more buy what they need vs what they want. But the luxury brand market in all goods has been doing steady despite the financial set backs of the last few years. Those who have money more and more REALLY have money, and they spend it on top notch items. So we go from Salgado as the face of Leica to Seal. And of course it's middle age to older people. Young people struggle as always (and as always make the better work with what they have). As a working pro I always find the Porsche comparisons on here amusing. Now if we're talking '91 Ford Rangers I could join in..... Personally I'm on the fence about the new M. And as a pro the MacGyver aspect of the add ons is not appealing at all. I want my gear to be responsive, and when it comes to long lenses, superwides, etc one can't beat a good dslr. Sure there will always be those that need/want and can afford the complete set, but only time will tell how it actually performs in real world usage. And of course everyone's mileage will differ. I do wish I could afford a Monochrom though. Perhaps some will start to show up on the used market as afficianados feel the need to move onto the next best(?) thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 27, 2013 Share #50 Posted January 27, 2013 In this case there are many reasons for us old farts to want a M240, not the least of which is eyesight issues that make focusing a RF dicey at times, especially with longer lenses. I am almost 67 and am really looking forward to a EVF with focus assist, even if the EVF is not the greatest. I am really looking forward to live view for the same reasons. Those features are absolutely a plus for me. I don't much care about video, so I will just leave that button alone. I agree and I am 70 this year. But young at heart. Who has eyesight issues? I've got one good eye just like my camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2013 Share #51 Posted January 27, 2013 Remember, as a system the Canon 5DII system (5DII + 50/1.2) and the Nikon D3X system (D3X + 50/1.2) could never come close to out resolving the Leica M9 system (M9 + Summilux) even though the M9 had fewer pixels. Let's face it, it was hard to beat the image quality of the M9 at base ISO. LensRentals.com - The Great 50mm Shootout The M240 with its new sensor design should have very low noise. It is possible that it may rate at the top of the DXO sensor testing... we will see. It will also have more pixels. And, the optics can't be beat. It could very well provide more resolution and more dynamic range than the D800. We will have to wait and see. But, at the very least this is the performance echelon we are realistically hoping the M will get included in. So, it will be top notch FF camera for $7K that isn't just going to be bought by old farts. I'm sure Leica won't be able to keep up with the demand. Add to all of this, high bit rate 24fps video through gorgeous Leica glass and the market just expanded that much more whether you like video or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted January 27, 2013 Share #52 Posted January 27, 2013 Well you might say the youth wants the new M's features... but I actually went with leica because of the absence of all the 'toeters en bellen' as we say in Dutch... or all the features I wouldn't use anyway. A lot of my 'nikon/canon' friends don't get it why I spend so much on these prime lenses, they pay less and get a nice 28-105 zoom lens.... haha But I do notice some Envy towards the way I can do street work, and they can't with their 10KG luggage... plus, they hate carrying it around for longer then a few hours. Me? I cary the M9p and M6 TTL no problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share #53 Posted January 27, 2013 I bought my my first Leica when I was 30.. I bought my first Leica when I was 34. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstlight Posted January 27, 2013 Share #54 Posted January 27, 2013 I bought my first Leica when I was 34. And I'm going to buy the new M in the age of 28 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayewing Posted January 27, 2013 Share #55 Posted January 27, 2013 I was 35 when I bought my first Leica - a second hand M2 and over the years I added more lenses - none of them new. I bought my first new Leica, an M9 and new lens at the age of 72. While the average age of a Leica user is 48 I suspect that the average age of a purchaser of new Leica M cameras and lenses is a little older. I should think that the Leica marketing department have detailed statistics on this sort of thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhmrogers Posted January 27, 2013 Share #56 Posted January 27, 2013 It will be so interesting to see what the pioneer owners achieve. It's bound to unlock something extra for some photographers. For the present I'm just looking forward to enjoying their work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share #57 Posted January 27, 2013 i don't understand all this cynicism and wanting the M240 to not succeed. No wonder people think we Leica users are snobs!! The M240 is going to be a HUGE success.....i don't know why one has to be over or under 50 years-old to be classified as a potential buyer. Another point which i don't understand. All that being said.....i, personally, am not interested in the camera. HOWEVER it is naive to think it will not be a good camera and that it will not succeed. For the record, I want Leica to succeed in their business.I also strongly belief, that it will be a good camera, no doubts about that. If that means selling lots of M cameras. Good for them. I only think, that the market will shift a little. A lot of M9 users today won't buy the new M. a) Because they like the sensor quality of the M9. They don't need the extra quality. Because the first two years, it will be a major cost. Just having paid for an M9 which also was expensive. c) Because a lot of Leica users are not very rich. They just can afford this M9 and lenses, because they have saved a lot of money during the last years to spend on it. Spending more than required gives them a feeling of guild. d) Because they don't like the looks of it. People who will buy the new M: a) Those who believe, the M will provide them with better pictures. Those who are so fortunate, they don't have to feel guilt spending the next € 5500,- c) Those who see the camera as a new way of making films and pictures at the same time. d) Those who see the camera as a wonderful tool, because of it's enhanced sensor quality to shoot very big pictures. 2 by 3 meters landscape photography. e) Macro and R lens users? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted January 27, 2013 Share #58 Posted January 27, 2013 The cost of the new M is not significant for vast amounts of people. In fact, there are very many people for whom it's hard to find enough expensive items to consume. The new M will give them an opportunity to use an exclusive camera, without the technical obstacle that the arcane rangefinder has previously presented. For rich and seriously photographically interested people there are plenty of other cameras to spend their money on - such as an Alpa system. But if you want the caché of an exclusive mainstream camera, the full-frame mirrorless option of an M-240 will be perfect. The hardships of the current global economic situation are absolutely not shared equally by all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelagia Posted January 27, 2013 Share #59 Posted January 27, 2013 After reading this thread a short sentence by an editor of a respectable photo magazine who was listening to extended explanations of a workshop participant, came to my mind: "show me your photos". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share #60 Posted January 27, 2013 Just to ad to the discussion. I found this on Erwin Puts blog: BLOG | The TAO of Leica " Do not buy a new camera for at least two years, but invest time and energy in exploiting the possibilities of the current one. If you think you need a new one, carefully compare existing camera with new camera and see if your photography really will improve in the direction you want to move. " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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