new 'official' M240 pics up!

[wlaidlaw]

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I think the colour cannot be judged yet, as it is mainly dependent on the camera profiles in raw conversion. Software developers seem to lag behind; the proper M9 colours were only visible after a few weeks, initial results were horrible. Capture One and Apple have not managed to incorporate Monochrome raw yet at all - and the camera is out for half a year.

 

Phase One are desperate to get hold of an M-240 to at least get started work on profiles but as yet they have been unsuccessful. A number of us have added our voices asking Leica to lend them one but no luck so far. Given Leica's past close relationship with this company, this lack of coordination is disappointing. I will be more than a little unhappy if my new M arrives and I can't develop the DNG images and no I am not going to convert to Lightroom, which I thoroughly dislike.

 

I agree with some of the commentary about less than epic development of these images. Does not Lightroom have a skin tones tool like Capture One does, to correct the Kyrgyzstanis appearing to have drinkers' noses.

 

Wilson

[dwbell]

here's my thinking:

MP = 993 (the last hurrah)

M8 = 996 (controversial, not oil (air) cooled any longer, not film any longer)

M9 = 997 (the acceptable water cooled 911 and the acceptable digital?)

M = 991 (the next generation)

 

that almost works, doesn't it!?

 

Haha! That's pretty good, indeed!

 

And every small step along the way upset the previous owners and excited / attracted the new owners. It's inevitable.

 

There's also an interesting parallel on Porsche making the majority of their profits from the sacrilegious 4X4 SUV, the Cayenne. Could this be paralleled with the PanaLeica relationship? "Unworthy" products that, secretly, make all the money the company needs to hone it's flagship models?

[dwbell]

to correct the Kyrgyzstanis appearing to have drinkers' noses.

 

Wilson

 

There could be a more simple explanation for that effect.

[iedei]

There's also an interesting parallel on Porsche making the majority of their profits from the sacrilegious 4X4 SUV, the Cayenne. Could this be paralleled with the PanaLeica relationship? "Unworthy" products that, secretly, make all the money the company needs to hone it's flagship models?

 

ah yeah! interesting. So Audi would be like Panasonic? Porschaudi? Panaleica?

 

I'm actually a big time Audiphile....so this works well for me!

[dwbell]

ah yeah! interesting. So Audi would be like Panasonic? Porschaudi? Panaleica?

 

I'm actually a big time Audiphile....so this works well for me!

 

Ha, yup. And just as an RS3 can give a 991 owner a red face. So can the latest m4/3 (GX1 or something?) scare the M9 / M240! Healthy competition from within.

[Rick]

Does not Lightroom have a skin tones tool like Capture One does, to correct the Kyrgyzstanis appearing to have drinkers' noses.

 

Wilson

 

Yes, In LR open up the panel labeled "P1 Effects" and move second slider to the left:

 

NCC (Nose Capillary Correction). Attenuate<-----------------|---------------->Dilate

 

 

 

Seriously, LR doesn't need a skin tone tool kit because, if the color temperature is corrected, the tones can be adjusted in the color sliders with a decrease in purple and magenta and red and decrease yellow saturation.

 

Then, revisit the color temperature panel and slide Tint away from magenta and move the Color Temp warmer to correct for the Tint adjustment you just made.

 

You will find that you have a perfect face color without any of the realistic red that most people actually have on their cheeks and noses. It will look just like those waxy yellowish files you get from Canon, except Canon is smart enough to do it in-camera so no one complains.

[k-hawinkler]

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The grapevine tells me that any concerns about image quality are totally unfounded...

 

 

More detail please!

[thrid]

As an aside, the newer optics coming out of Canon and Nikon are absolutely spectacular and so absolute IQ is not the battle ground Leica should be choosing for the M and quite sensibly they have recognised this. Instead, a blend of features giving best overall utility appears to have been their goal. I mean, what would be the real world market for a $7000 M10 with 32 MP CCD when canon releases a 50MP camera, which has access to all the tilt and shift lenses for landscapers etc...and which pros can use in the same system as their 5DIII? None.

 

IQ is not all about megapixels. Exposure range and color bit depth have a far bigger impact than most people realize. 24MP lets you print quite big. Years ago I read an article where KODAK estimated that a frame of 135 film contained about 25MP of information. So, given the size of the sensor and camera were not losing anything and probably actually gaining something (color accuracy, noise performance at high iso etc).

 

Both Nikon and Canon are producing good glass, but their sample variation is all over the map. That's just the price you pay for mass producing AF glass that sells at a reasonable cost. But regardless, as good as their glass is, I don't believe either one of them produces a lens as good as letS say the 35 / 50 Lux,

 

And of course there is the size problem. A 1.4/35 from Canon/Nikon/Sigma is as big as coffee can. My D600 rig is downright monstrous compared to an M with equivalent lens and that is the most compact full frame DSLR out there (but is sure makes pretty pictures..).

[John Black]

Seriously, LR doesn't need a skin tone tool kit because, if the color temperature is corrected, the tones can be adjusted in the color sliders with a decrease in purple and magenta and red and decrease yellow saturation.

 

Then, revisit the color temperature panel and slide Tint away from magenta and move the Color Temp warmer to correct for the Tint adjustment you just made.

 

The skin color correction in C1 is a color edit, not a WB adjustment. White balance is not effective tool in correcting skin tones because digital cameras pick up the IR. Make-up plays havoc with IR. Adjusting WB (in LR) to fix skin tones will skew the WB for the rest of the image. Ultimately a localized color adjustment can be performed in both tools, I just happen to think C1 is easier and runs faster.

[Paul J]

But regardless, as good as their glass is, I don't believe either one of them produces a lens as good as letS say the 35 / 50 Lux

 

I agree. It's not even close in my experience.

[Rick]

The skin color correction in C1 is a color edit, not a WB adjustment. White balance is not effective tool in correcting skin tones because digital cameras pick up the IR. Make-up plays havoc with IR. Adjusting WB (in LR) to fix skin tones will skew the WB for the rest of the image. Ultimately a localized color adjustment can be performed in both tools, I just happen to think C1 is easier and runs faster.

 

Sure, cameras pick up IR and it is in the red end of the spectrum for sure. White balance actually can be effective and often poor WB is the culprit due to incorrect setting or because there exists to much tungsten light in the room.

 

You can correct this by making a Tint correction in the WB area of the LR controls. You can effectively move the color balance away from red. It works fine except you need to make a concomitant change in the color temp to warm up the picture to compensate for the Tint change you made to correct for the "red nose." Problem is, yellow becomes saturated. So, move down to yellow saturation and decrease it. Very fast.

 

While you are in the color controls decrease red/purple/ magenta a little as well.

 

I really love LR and think that it gives the best skin tones but, I will admit that I never got used to C1. So, maybe it is just a matter of figuring out how to get C1 to do what I want.

[Rick]

Thanks. The lesson here is also: don't use an iPad or iPhone with Safari to judge colors in these images: no ICC support.

 

More exactly, don't use iPad or any iOS device to accurately view content from the web or file sources that use a sRGB color profile. iOS doesn't support sRGB... not to mention the iPad monitor is not calibrated!

 

Also, as far as I can tell on Windows OS, only Fire Fox will manage color correctly from the internet all the way to your monitor including your specific monitor calibration. All other browsers will choose the ICC sRGB profile standard and ignore your calibrated monitor settings.

 

Mac OSX and Safari will recognize and manage color from the internet all the way to the monitor including your own calibrated monitor display profile. Safari won't do this running on Windows.

 

As an aside, LR and PS will manage color from their program to your monitor and use your monitor profile, no problem.

 

Otherwise, any other combinations are not giving forum members correct color to judge and comment correctly on posted photographs such as the ones of interest on this thread.

[LeicaMSeattle]

I guess, I'm an "Old school type", with my older 1998 air-cooled 993 shooting with an M9-P and M8.2. It is entertaining watching the banter on these threads regarding the rather lack luster examples taken with this new camera that is being used by a "Magnum" photographer in the conventional rangefinder manner sans the electronic focusing aids that many not including me, has requested as a feature on this new camera.

[Rick]

I don't use Fire Firefox but, for those of you that do, you are still not using your monitor profile you so carefully set up with your spider colorimeter unless you enable its Value 1 in the browser setup.

 

Additionally, nearly 10% of you can ignore all of this because non of this will matter to you at all.

[jaapv]

Sure, cameras pick up IR and it is in the red end of the spectrum for sure. White balance actually can be effective and often poor WB is the culprit due to incorrect setting or because there exists to much tungsten light in the room.

 

You can correct this by making a Tint correction in the WB area of the LR controls. You can effectively move the color balance away from red. It works fine except you need to make a concomitant change in the color temp to warm up the picture to compensate for the Tint change you made to correct for the "red nose." Problem is, yellow becomes saturated. So, move down to yellow saturation and decrease it. Very fast.

 

While you are in the color controls decrease red/purple/ magenta a little as well.

 

I really love LR and think that it gives the best skin tones but, I will admit that I never got used to C1. So, maybe it is just a matter of figuring out how to get C1 to do what I want.

That depends on the C1 version. C1pro has very subtle colour controls that are better than LR in my experience. One can make the adjustments your mention targeted at each colour group separately, so tweaking the red, for instance, won't affect the yellow.

 

Similarly LAB colour correction is much more precise. As you see by your method changing the hue in one colour affects the whole balance. That is because RGB colours are automatically linked to luminance. In LAB you are only tweaking the colours without shifting the luminance by using the curves tool in the A and B channel.

[jaapv]

More detail please!

 

Let's put it this way - what I have been taking in over the last month regarding IQ has my resolve not to get one wavering....

I am still doubtful about the Swiss Army Knife aspect of the package, but....

[k-hawinkler]

Let's put it this way - what I have been taking in over the last month regarding IQ has my resolve not to get one wavering....

I am still doubtful about the Swiss Army Knife aspect of the package, but....

 

 

Jaap,

 

Many thanks. You wavering is indeed a good sign.

It should be an interesting couple months before us.

[plasticman]

Jaap,

 

Many thanks. You wavering is indeed a good sign.

 

You are basing your decision on whether Jaap is going to buy a new Leica model?

I have a more uncertain and objective test for you: will the sun rise tomorrow?

[k-hawinkler]

You are basing your decision on whether Jaap is going to buy a new Leica model?

I have a more uncertain and objective test for you: will the sun rise tomorrow?

 

 

You are jumping to conclusions.

Enough said.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[plasticman]

You are jumping to conclusions.

Enough said.

 

I think you're taking me (and yourself) too seriously.