colonel Posted January 17, 2013 Share #1 Posted January 17, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I know this will be controversial here, due to the predilection of many people for Apple devices, but I wanted to jot down my recent positive experience as follows: After many years building my own PCs and using Windows 7/64, just over a year ago I made the transition to Apple by buying an iMac. Subsequently I have also purchased for the family a Mac Book Pro, two ipads and an iPhone 5. The attraction at the time was being bored of windows, seeing something different and the lovely design and build quality of the iMac, not to mention the slick sales compulsion at an Apple store. Also, significantly, as I use Adobe Lightroom extensively, that gorgeous 27” monitor. Interestingly the price of a good 27” IPS monitor at the time + PC was actually pretty much the same as the iMac. I overlooked the lowish spec., odd mixture of low powered laptop and desktop components, difficulty of upgrading the components and lack of software based on the spec being "good enough", a moribund PC, the neat all-in-one nature (no box on the floor!), my main games running on OsX and the excitement of the Apple experience. The glass and metal design of the iMac is really great. Although many Windows All-in-ones are now looking good, it would be great if some PC monitor companies (hint Dell!) can make some metal and glass monitors. One year on I have returned to Windows, actually Windows 8, and here's why ..... It was time for an upgrade. Crysis 3, Far Cry 3 and Battlefield 3 demanded it (spooky - they are all at version 3!). Also I wanted faster photo editing. There are five major reasons I did not go with the new iMac or Mac Pro 1. Price. I priced up a good spec (but below what I wanted) new end 2012 iMac. This came to around £2,100. The graphics card and cpu were laptop versions and far behind the desktop equivalent. 2. Apple is moving to soldered and non-upgradeable components. Not only have they ruined the Retina Macbook Pro’s this way (these are actually Mac Book Airs and even have soldered memory – with a limit of a paltry 16gb) but now have done so with the new iMac. Only the memory is upgradeable (at least). 3. The Mac Pro languishes with old technology and a ridiculous price. 4. Dearth of software, especially games 5. I decided I like Windows more (shock horror!). For many annoyances. Some things in OsX are more intuitive then Windows (e.g. parental controls) but the vast majority of things are more intuitive in Windows IMHO, e.g.: a. Apple app menu is always at the top of the screen, what a pain, especially on a 27” screen b. Delete button doesn’t delete files, have to right click to trash c. Default photo viewer only views single file (in windows you click on any photo and have the option then to flick through the whole folder) and the more comprehensive viewer, iPhoto, is a real bloatware piece of software d. Incompatibility of QuickTime with so many formats and the difficulty of maintaining plugins. I ended up using VLC e. No central app setting registry to hack (some people see this as an advantage) f. Etc. I decided against building my own PC. Even though I enjoy it, I didn’t have the time with the kids and other commitments these days. Also it appealed to me to have a guarantee for the whole computer. I had instances in the past with building PCs where one component was faulty and it took me days to find it. Saying that I can strongly recommend a self-build if you have time, its great fun, you get the pieces you want and it normally works out around 10% cheaper then a purchased machine. I ended up with an absolutely dream setup for me: 1. Dell U2713H monitor. This is a 27” AH-IPS screen with a 10bit gamut (10 billion colours), a new “invisible” anti-glare coating and is colour matched from the factory. 2. Dell Alienware Aurora R4. I bought a recondition one from dell. It hasn’t a mark on it, a 12 month guarantee and worked out around 38% cheaper then a new one. Amongst other things it has a Nvidia GTX 680, Socket 2011 cpu, liquid cpu cooler and a case to die for (if you like long but sleek heavy black metal cases with subtle lighting). I have to say this computer does have the ownership enjoyment of, for example, a nice watch or a Leica, due mainly to the case. The case is actually not very tall, but it is long, but pushed under a desk the length is somewhat disguised. 3. Corsair M60 mouse and Steelseries metal mousepad. The mouse is ultra responsive and simply “floats” in combination with this mousemat. 4. Steelseries 6Gv2 keyboard. Surprisingly compact, surprisingly heavy with full mechanical switches. A dream to use. I can’t describe the joy of using the above quality components. I find it funny how many people build/buy an amazing PC and then stick a cheap keyboard and mouse on it. The two devices which you interact with the most should be of the highest quality. They lend to the entire experience, ergonomics and “handling” (as we photography geeks say!). How about Windows 8 ? A shock to be honest. Takes a bit of time to get used, but once you do, its really great. In summary Windows 8 takes out the start button/menu and puts in its place a start screen (codename “Metro”). It has a Windows 7 like screened environment, which at first you think you will use a lot, but now, all I use it for is apps that need it (e.g. control panel) and when I need to have multiple windows open (e.g. file explorer). To gel with Windows 8 you really need to adapt Metro to what you want. Most people probably only use 4/5 apps on any computer (internet, word processor and a few games). With Metro, the secret is to tag all the apps you use frequently to the front screen, and then you are done. All the other apps can be viewed in the “all apps” screen when required. The system becomes easier to use and less clicks are required. Obviously the windows key is used more, and without a touch screen it pays to become familiar with shortcuts (particularly Windows+I, Windows+E, Alt-Tab, etc.) Although Windows 7 drivers do work, most key vendors have Windows 8 drivers now. Some are critical if you are upgrading, for example, the Intel RST Driver (native HDD and SSD driver for intel chipsets) must be upgraded to version 3.5 or above before you upgrade, otherwise most of the upgrade with go through, but Windows 8 will end up hanging for ever on the initial login screen – luckily the installation can be rolled back until almost the last minute). Apples are lovely designed machines. They have a place in the market, just not mine .... Its so good to be back. Back to the place where I have the power at a price Apple users can only dream about and pretty much any component can be upgraded whenever I want. Just remember the steelseries keyboard, mousemat and a good mouse, e.g. Corsair ……. BTW my iPhone 5 via ebay is now a Samsung Galaxy SIII - what joy, a story for another time .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Hi colonel, Take a look here Coming back home, an Apple through the Window ...... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bill Posted January 17, 2013 Share #2 Posted January 17, 2013 Amen, Brother. Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 17, 2013 Share #3 Posted January 17, 2013 Hi, You said, "Default photo viewer only views single file (in windows you click on any photo and have the option then to flick through the whole folder)". Did you realise you can view all photos in finder? You can also use the trackpad to scroll through them, in the same was as album covers on the ipod. Having used Windows machines for so many years, I'm still learning the Apple after a years use, it's quite a change, and I sometimes miss the familiarity I had with Windows, but my personal experience with Windows is that every laptop/PC I've had has slowed down considerably with use, to the point where they become so frustrating to use I have had to replace them. I'm not knowledgeable enough to build my own PC, or know what to do when one suffers from the more technical problems. Apple seem to cater more and more for the type of user that just wants something to work, without wanting or needing to know the technicalities it (hence the move away from user upgrades). As someone said to me when I was seeking advice on computers, just choose what suits your needs best, be that Windows or MAC. They both do essentially the same thing but in different ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted January 17, 2013 Hi, Did you realise you can view all photos in finder? You can also use the trackpad to scroll through them, in the same was as album covers on the ipod. Having used Windows machines for so many years, I'm still learning the Apple after a years use, it's quite a change, and I sometimes miss the familiarity I had with Windows, but my personal experience with Windows is that every laptop/PC I've had has slowed down considerably with use, to the point where they become so frustrating to use I have had to replace them. Good points Finder lacks many basic features , such as full screen view, so I never used this. Except perhaps for photo selection for web upload. Your second point is interesting, and it reminds me of the 6th reason I changed back, but left out above. The iMac grew slower and slower over time. That damn rainbow circle started to drive me mad. my new computer is like a hot knife through butter compared to the iMac, and that includes when I first got it. Although a tangential issue, its nice to be able to play games at 2560x1440, which the iMac never could (1920x1280 at low settings). CS GO I turned everything up and sat back, and I never played anything with such liquid movement .. Of course, different computers suit different people. the iMac is perfect for those it is perfect for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted January 17, 2013 Share #5 Posted January 17, 2013 I agree. If one isn't happy with a system then one can 1) suffer or 2) switch. I'm impressed you play Crysis, Harold. Excellent game. By "default viewer" you mean Preview, right? Personally I find it a lot easier to preview images from any Finder window by pressing Space and then using arrows to move about in the folder. Though mostly I use Bridge for all my image-related browsing. The iMac grew slower and slower over time. Really? I have never experienced this with OS X. But it happened all the time on Windows. I'm quite sure it must have been lack of maintenance or incompatible/poorly written software. I use a 2008 Mac Pro which I upgrade and upgrade when I have the money. I am impressed by the platform actually, which suits my needs well, though I have no doubt that there are cheaper and significantly more capable PCs out there for those who need them. For me it is perfect though. And they can be picked up for not too much money; I've seen them here in NL for less than 1k. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted January 17, 2013 I use a 2008 Mac Pro which I upgrade and upgrade when I have the money. I am impressed by the platform actually, which suits my needs well, though I have no doubt that there are cheaper and significantly more capable PCs out there for those who need them. For me it is perfect though. And they can be picked up for not too much money; I've seen them here in NL for less than 1k. That is a superb system. the best Apple has IMHO I hope that Apple launches a thoroughly revised Mac Pro at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted January 17, 2013 Share #7 Posted January 17, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Colonel, first of all, let me say that I respect your choice. Macs are not for everyone, and have limitations as well as PCs. As a software developer on both Mac and PC for since '88, I feel that I have the right to comment here. This is my opinion: 1. Pc's are a waste of money for my personal use. The hardware ages way to fast and it is running the least performant system (pick any flavour of Windows and install it on your Intel Mac to see what I mean) 2. Working on Windows is fine for me as long as I have some nerd taking care of : - the constant battle against viruses - failing software - corrupted settings - slowing performance for no apparant reason - the need for installing systems from scratch every year or so. I do not want to get into the Apple - PC battle too much. Gave that up 15 years ago However the arguments you gave as OP are not correct or incomplete an do no justice to the systems described. It is only fair to correct them IMHO. There are five major reasons I did not go with the new iMac or Mac Pro 1. Price. I priced up a good spec (but below what I wanted) new end 2012 iMac. This came to around £2,100. The graphics card and cpu were laptop versions and far behind the desktop equivalent. iMacs have been designed for minimum desktop space and maximum elegance. Any PC trying to mimic this would need to use the same small-expensive-less performant components. It is not fair to compare with a desktop full size PC. Any Mac Pro or PC will beat my Macbook Pro in performance, but it would be a lot more difficult to use on a plane The georgious 2560-by-1440 iMac screen will set you back 50% of the price of the iMac if you want to buy it separately. I even doubt that you can find a sleek alu body with glass design like that at any price. 2. Apple is moving to soldered and non-upgradeable components. Not only have they ruined the Retina Macbook Pro’s this way (these are actually Mac Book Airs and even have soldered memory – with a limit of a paltry 16gb) but now have done so with the new iMac. Only the memory is upgradeable (at least). You have a point there. As long as warranty and repairs can be done, it should not matter that much because most compact consumer machines are never upgraded during their lifetime.16 GB for home consumer paltry ?! Remember that OSX only needs half the memory of windows for the same performance. 3. The Mac Pro languishes with old technology and a ridiculous price. I feel it is rather hard to find PC's with two 2.4GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon processors and memory architecture at any price. And that is only part of the story. Quality has its price. You do have a Leica don't you? 4. Dearth of software, especially games You have a point there Macs are no gaming machines. They are more geared towards Pre-publishing, artwork and such...But if you want great gaming experience, perhaps you rather want to buy an Xbox or Playstation anyway. 5. I decided I like Windows more (shock horror!). For many annoyances. Some things in OsX are more intuitive then Windows (e.g. parental controls) but the vast majority of things are more intuitive in Windows IMHO, e.g.: Often, what you know best suits best. I stopped checking for intuitiveness on Windows the moment I realized that I had to click 'Start' to shut down the damned machine a. Apple app menu is always at the top of the screen, what a pain, especially on a 27” screen Try working on two monitors in the same application on Windows, to see why this is the 'right' way. 'Throwing' your Mac mouse upwards will bring it to the top of your screen easily. Or you could learn shortcuts or the menu. Do you know there is a control panel in OsX to add/change the shortcuts for any menu on any application? b. Delete button doesn’t delete files, have to right click to trash Try CMD + Tab on the selection in the Finder to throw it in the trash without the annoying confirmation dialog that Windows bothers to throw in your face for every delete. This has been working from Mac OS 6 in the eighties until now. c. Default photo viewer only views single file (in windows you click on any photo and have the option then to flick through the whole folder) and the more comprehensive viewer, iPhoto, is a real bloatware piece of software Press CMD+Y with one file selected and use Up/Down arrows to navigate. Works for almost any type of file even office documents and pdf. Can also be used full screen.No comment on iPhoto. It is exactly what it needs to be for hobby use. Buy Lightroom or Aperture if you want more.Download GraphicConverter (shareware) for format conversions, batch processing and photoshop like features at a fraction of the price. d. Incompatibility of QuickTime with so many formats and the difficulty of maintaining plugins. I ended up using VLC You 're right. Same remark for Quicktime on windows mediaplayer.VLC is great on both Mac and PC. It is free too, so why complain? e. No central app setting registry to hack (some people see this as an advantage). Microsoft is trying to get rid of the registry since Vista because it is the oldest dinosaur in the software industry. Totally incompatible with modern software design!You are right. Mac's are notorious for being hard to hack. I see this as and advantage, keeping my mac virus free for almost 30 years now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted January 17, 2013 Share #8 Posted January 17, 2013 Try CMD + Tab on the selection in the Finder to throw it in the trash Sorry. The shortcut is actually CMD+Backspace. My mistake... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted January 17, 2013 This is my opinion: 1. Pc's are a waste of money for my personal use. The hardware ages way to fast and it is running the least performant system (pick any flavour of Windows and install it on your Intel Mac to see what I mean) *** Both macs and pcs use the same hardware type, so this is not a relevant point. It's just that Apples are stymied from go as they use lower spec components in any particular generation 2. Working on Windows is fine for me as long as I have some nerd taking care of : - the constant battle against viruses *** I have never used a virus program on a pc and have never had a virus - failing software *** don't understand why software would fail more under windows then FreeBSD, whoops, I mean OsX - corrupted settings *** again, never had that - slowing performance for no apparant reason *** computers slow down as their hard disk becomes fragmented and their program files gather logs, settings and other things. My iMac slowed down far faster then any pc I have had. - the need for installing systems from scratch every year or so. *** if you say so. Again I have been using pcs since the original IBM PC iMacs have been designed for minimum desktop space and maximum elegance. Any PC trying to mimic this would need to use the same small-expensive-less performant components. It is not fair to compare with a desktop full size PC. Any Mac Pro or PC will beat my Macbook Pro in performance, but it would be a lot more difficult to use on a plane The georgious 2560-by-1440 iMac screen will set you back 50% of the price of the iMac if you want to buy it separately. I even doubt that you can find a sleek alu body with glass design like that at any price. *** I agree Apples look more elegant You have a point there. As long as warranty and repairs can be done, it should not matter that much because most compact consumer machines are never upgraded during their lifetime. 16 GB for home consumer paltry ?! Remember that OSX only needs half the memory of windows for the same performance. *** I don't know how anyone can defend Apples memory prices, and the max of 16gb for a £2k machine I feel it is rather hard to find PC's with two 2.4GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon processors and memory architecture at any price. And that is only part of the story. Quality has its price. You do have a Leica don't you? *** my Alienware is nothing but quality. I doubt the Mac Pro is a more expensive build. BTW I have 16 cores in my work pc, pretty sure the Mac Pro can't match that. You have a point there Macs are no gaming machines. They are more geared towards Pre-publishing, artwork and such... But if you want great gaming experience, perhaps you rather want to buy an Xbox or Playstation anyway. *** consoles have no where near the gaming experiences of pcs Often, what you know best suits best. I stopped checking for intuitiveness on Windows the moment I realized that I had to click 'Start' to shut down the damned machine **** really ? What about clicking the apple symbol to shut down. I fail to see any difference Try working on two monitors in the same application on Windows, to see why this is the 'right' way. 'Throwing' your Mac mouse upwards will bring it to the top of your screen easily. Or you could learn shortcuts or the menu. Do you know there is a control panel in OsX to add/change the shortcuts for any menu on any application? Try CMD + Tab on the selection in the Finder to throw it in the trash without the annoying confirmation dialog that Windows bothers to throw in your face for every delete. This has been working from Mac OS 6 in the eighties until now. Press CMD+Y with one file selected and use Up/Down arrows to navigate. Works for almost any type of file even office documents and pdf. Can also be used full screen.No comment on iPhoto. It is exactly what it needs to be for hobby use. Buy Lightroom or Aperture if you want more. *** more clicks on apple then both windows 7 and 8. I have 4 monitors at work on windows 7, much easier then the two I had on the iMac. 27" is too much screen for the apple menu system. It's simply not designed for it. Windows 8 is, *** In summary, I am not sure how long ago you used windows. Apples best computer, the Mac Pro, is £2k for antiquated technology next to a £1k pc. And that's for a quad core. The point of my post was that the power/cost ratio of Apple no longer makes any sense. The new found built in obsolescence of apple (they want you to this away your retina MacBook every 2 years) is a scandal. The proof is apples own MacBook Pro. One of the best designed laptops. You take the back off and the hard disk, memory and even CPU are easy to get to and upgrade. The mac book air and retina show apples future direction, and it ain't pretty. Apple computers are beautifully designed, and sure that's what you are paying for. I am no longer prepared to pay the accelerating profit margin of apple. Apple Hubris ? I think so. Fancy a blu ray on an Apple Mac ? Didn't think so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted January 18, 2013 Share #10 Posted January 18, 2013 @colonel Let's agree to disagree then. I am happy were I am, and probably spend a lot less on my Mac hardware than you do. Could be that component wise your PC has faster hardware, but it will need it! Check out installing Mac OSX on the same hardware as Windows and see which is running Photoshop or so faster. I agree that running OSX on the fastest PC now might be even faster than that, but unfortunately that will never happen, because Apple does not allow it. Fact is that my Mac Pro from 2006 (4x2.66 Ghz Xeon) 6 GB happily runs current OsX and is quite productive still. Buy some Alienware PC from 2006 and install Windows 8 on it. See what happens... I can go on like this...Its similar to the discussion M9 versus prices for Nikon D800 or Canon xxx. Some/most people do not understand why most of us here are happy to pay two times the price for hardware that looks inferior to what Canon and Nikon have to offer. Leica gives me more pleasure to use and is even cheaper in the long run because it keeps its value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted January 18, 2013 Share #11 Posted January 18, 2013 Out of curiosity, I tried to look up similar systems on both Apple and Dell site: This is a 1 x 6 core machine with 32GB of ram: $3649 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2289118 This is a 1 x 6 core machine with 32GB of ram $3974 Configure - Apple Store for Business (U.S.) I could not find Alienware with more than 6 cores. 2x 6core from apple with 12GB of ram: $3799 can be easily upgraded yourself to 64GB Configure - Apple Store for Business (U.S.) Apple offers more performance or is not that much more expensive as I see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share #12 Posted January 18, 2013 @colonelLet's agree to disagree then. I am happy were I am, and probably spend a lot less on my Mac hardware than you do. Could be that component wise your PC has faster hardware, but it will need it! Check out installing Mac OSX on the same hardware as Windows and see which is running Photoshop or so faster. I agree that running OSX on the fastest PC now might be even faster than that, but unfortunately that will never happen, because Apple does not allow it. Fact is that my Mac Pro from 2006 (4x2.66 Ghz Xeon) 6 GB happily runs current OsX and is quite productive still. Buy some Alienware PC from 2006 and install Windows 8 on it. See what happens... I can go on like this...Its similar to the discussion M9 versus prices for Nikon D800 or Canon xxx. Some/most people do not understand why most of us here are happy to pay two times the price for hardware that looks inferior to what Canon and Nikon have to offer. Leica gives me more pleasure to use and is even cheaper in the long run because it keeps its value. Firstly I had an iMac for over a year. Now I have a pc. I have spent money only for a diversion to Apple. Secondly it sounds like you have never installed windows 7, let alone windows 8. They were both done smoothly with no user intervention. I am not following any advantage for apple Thirdly, apple does not run photoshop faster then windows. Post a link if you want. I believe you have merely speculated on this. Fourthly, Windows 8 is far faster then OsX. If you google speed you will see that people have been installing it on old net books with cut down celerons as its much faster then even windows xp. People are using it to revive old computers that have not been used. It seems to me you are well out of touch with windows. The crowning achievement of which is that it can run on so many hardware variations, not just the canned and limited range that OsX has to deal with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share #13 Posted January 18, 2013 Out of curiosity, I tried to look up similar systems on both Apple and Dell site: This is a 1 x 6 core machine with 32GB of ram: $3649 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2289118 This is a 1 x 6 core machine with 32GB of ram $3974 Configure - Apple Store for Business (U.S.) I could not find Alienware with more than 6 cores. 2x 6core from apple with 12GB of ram: $3799 can be easily upgraded yourself to 64GB Configure - Apple Store for Business (U.S.) Apple offers more performance or is not that much more expensive as I see it. From you pricing above it appears that the Alienware is cheaper. What you don't mention is the ore components. For example the Alienware will have a top graphics card for this price, the Mac Pro has an ancient 5 series ati card, the retail price of which is 20% of the card in the Alienware Alienware is a premium brand. I am sure if you priced up a similar dell business workstation it would be far cheaper, albeit with some components less high spec for gaming. There is no alternative to the grossly overpriced Mac Pro in the apple range. Which btw doesn't even have a thunderbolt port, so can't connect apples own latest monitor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted January 18, 2013 Share #14 Posted January 18, 2013 What I wanted to compare is processing power. There is no Alienware version that supports 2x 6Core AFAIK and the Mac Pro with 12 cores does not even cost much more than the Alienware with 6 cores. MacPro seems to be the clear winner here. Even the 1x 6core version can be had cheaper if you upgrade the memory yourself and it can be upgraded with any graphics card you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted January 18, 2013 What I wanted to compare is processing power. There is no Alienware version that supports 2x 6Core AFAIK and the Mac Pro with 12 cores does not even cost much more than the Alienware with 6 cores. MacPro seems to be the clear winner here. Even the 1x 6core version can be had cheaper if you upgrade the memory yourself and it can be upgraded with any graphics card you want. Dell Precision T7600, dual 6 core (12) $2,917, dual 8 core (16) $4,884 sorry! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Monkhouse Posted January 18, 2013 Share #16 Posted January 18, 2013 Halleluiah, praise the Lord, another sinner has seen the light, let us all rejoice greatly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted January 18, 2013 Share #17 Posted January 18, 2013 Dell Precision T7600, dual 6 core (12) $2,917, dual 8 core (16) $4,884 Thank you colonel. I thought something was wrong when I could not find a Dell that has higher specs than the Mac Pro Paying about 30% premium for Apple hardware sounds right. It is actually cheaper than Leica - Canon which is about 100% premium. Great machines these T7600, at least on paper. If they would run Mac OS 10.8 I might be tempted... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted January 18, 2013 Share #18 Posted January 18, 2013 my new computer is like a hot knife through butter compared to the iMac, and that includes when I first got it. .... and thats been the same with every windows computer I've had since the year dot.... and by the 6 month mark I am chewing the keyboard in frustration due constant glitches, slowdowns and incompatabilities that accumulate due to the necessity for windows to accommodate a huge variety of badly written and often frankly barely compatible coding from a selection of software and hardware suppliers..... As someone who has just come back from setting up my fathers new brother printer on windows 7 (just put the disc in and it will do everything automatically... ha ha ha !) it will take a lot for me to junk my iMac and go back to Microsoft. I don't use processor hungry games and there is nothing I do on my Mac that is noticeably slow and certainly not enough to be an issue. I cannot give my money to a company that forces me to use software in the way THEY want, rather than allow me to use customise it and use it in a way that I find useful. On my current (spare) windows computer, the operating system is the ONLY piece of Microsoft software on the machine. They are both a bunch of bandits but I would rather give my cash to Apple. Sorry. ... oh and I run my legacy windows progs under Parallels on my iMac and they NEVER crash..... unlike every other windows machine I have ever owned.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 19, 2013 Share #19 Posted January 19, 2013 Well, colonel you are not well informed regarding very much of the Mac, but I will not waste time correcting you. You got what you deserve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share #20 Posted January 19, 2013 Thank you colonel. I thought something was wrong when I could not find a Dell that has higher specs than the Mac Pro Paying about 30% premium for Apple hardware sounds right. It is actually cheaper than Leica - Canon which is about 100% premium. Great machines these T7600, at least on paper. If they would run Mac OS 10.8 I might be tempted... As I said before, I think the mac pro is superb and I hope Apple update it soon OsX is also a great operating system, with great foundations (FreeBSD) .... and thats been the same with every windows computer I've had since the year dot.... and by the 6 month mark I am chewing the keyboard in frustration due constant glitches, slowdowns and incompatabilities that accumulate due to the necessity for windows to accommodate a huge variety of badly written and often frankly barely compatible coding from a selection of software and hardware suppliers..... I never really experienced this myself, but you are quite right, the multitude of devices that Windows supports has let in some pretty bad drivers. In fact MS's own survey revealed that 90% of BSOD's reported were from hardware drivers. That has improved somewhat with the driver signing program. I used Windows XP 64bit, Windows 7 64bit, OS 10.7 and 10.8 and now Windows 8 64bit at home. I found 10.8 a bit slower then 10.7, but both are pretty snappy. The deterioration in speed over 13 months was quite disappointing, I also bought into the Apple mythology of no slow downs, but it seems to suffer exactly the same issue as windows, with fragmentation and residues left by installation/uninstallation of programs. Windows has a central app db that can be cleared up, in FreeBSD you need to search around for the various folders where configuration files are left. On the other hand, bad corruption of the central db in Windows can effect the whole OS, in OsX programs tend just to ruin their own area, or though they can have a knock-on effect in the local and library common folders. Another example, OsX's knack of littering everywhere with .X files is terribly annoying. This was the main cause of slowdown on the Fuji X100 when it came out (it catalogues all files on the SD card when it starts up. Folk using it with Apple computers had files deposited on the SD card every time they sucked files into their computer). Of course it can be solved by formatting the SD card every time you use it, but its just another reason IMHO why the mythology of OsX being perfect is just that, mythology (how about having to unmount SD cards every time you take them out ! - residue/legacy from unix). I am not knocking Apple's design, which is superb, and OsX which is excellent. I also, as a Leica user, fully understand the premium for design and user pleasure. But I guess the bottom line is that my new setup is providing just as much of the pleasure, with more oomph! You guys should really try a mechanical keyboard on your macs (if they are compatible), its a revelation after the Apple ones ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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