How do you control white balance with film?

[JeTexas]

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I don't shoot color film much, but I ran a couple rolls through the M3 over the holidays, and I just got them back. Everything has a very yellow-green tint to it.

 

I was able to scan the negatives and correct it in the computer, but that kind of defeats the purpose of shooting film and then printing directly from the negatives.

 

How do I control the color cast, so that my negatives have a better white balance?

[earleygallery]

Hi,

 

There is no 'white balance' with film.

 

Film is balanced for daylight colours/colour temperature. If you shoot under artificial light you will get an orange or green colour cast depending on the type of lighting. To avoid that we can use colour correction filters or tungsten film (balanced for studio lighting - not flash, but no longer available).

 

It sounds to me as though your problem may be more to do with poor processing and/or outdated film, or maybe just scanning issues.

 

Colour casts should be corrected during printing (by altering the colour filters) but most processors now just scan the film and print digitally.

 

Were the photos in daylight or indoors? Are all images affected by the colour cast?

[JeTexas]

All the indoor shots had the yellow-green color cast. The outdoor shots of Christmas lights look pretty nice.

 

Walgreens did the processing, so I'm guessing there wasn't much work put into the output.

 

Next time I shoot indoors should I try a yellow or green filter or should I just find a better lab?

[andybarton]

You will always need to use a filter if shooting daylight colour film indoors, under artificial light. Finding a better processor than Wallgreeens won't make any difference.

 

You used to be able to buy Tungsten light film, but that went years ago, AFAIK.

[xalo]

Hi,

 

In addition to all the advice above and because I know next to nothing about filtering different artificial light sources, I would suggest using a (negative) film that's more tolerant to mixed and artificial light: Fuji Pro400H is an excellent case in point, probably Kodak Portra 400, too (but my only test roll went bust in processing).

 

Cheers,

 

Alexander

[earleygallery]

If the lighting was fluorescent (i.e. greenish cast on daylight film) you need an FLD colour correction filter.

 

However the cast can be corrected at the printing stage, or as you have done, by scanning/correcting.

 

Other options include using flash (eek!!) or B&W.

[stunsworth]

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If there's a yellow/green tint to the photos it sounds as if they've been shot under flourescant light - or those low enery bulbs, which I think use a type of flourescant material.

 

Fuji film used to be pretty good with mixed light.

[Messsucherkamera]

When shooting daylight color balanced film indoors, fluorescent lighting causes a green cast while incandescent lighting causes a yellow or orangeish cast as others have noted. If you were shooting in mixed lighting, that would explain the yellow-green cast you describe.

 

When I'm shooting indoors, the first thing I do is look at the lights that are present.

 

If you have incandescent light, you can use an 80A filter with daylight film to counteract the yellow cast that the incandescent light causes (80A filters will cause a -2EV exposure loss). If you have fluorescent lighting, a FLD filter used with daylight film will correct the green cast (FLD filters cause a -1.5 to -1.75 EV exposure loss).

 

If you have mixed lighting, use black and white film. Problem solved.

[willwright]

from working a mostly with color neg, which as has been stated is daylight color balance, I've found that in Photoshop, tungsten light is largely a red/yellow shift and fluorescent is a green/yellow balance. my solution is adding a little cyan and quite a bit of blue for the tungsten and a little magenta and a moderate amount of yellow for the fluorescent. It's a judgement thing and you can play around with it quite a bit. Be careful to avoid excess correction or you'll push things out of gamut. Try it, it works.

[tobey bilek]

We bought film balanced for the intended use or used a a blue filter to artificially change the light to daylight. I suggest an 80B filter, 1 2/3 stop light loss. It will balance to 3400 K. An 80A will balance to 2800 K, 2 stop loss.

 

Trying to correct in PS or expecting the processor to get it perfect will not work.

[xalo]

We bought film balanced for the intended use or used a a blue filter to artificially change the light to daylight. I suggest an 80B filter, 1 2/3 stop light loss. It will balance to 3400 K. An 80A will balance to 2800 K, 2 stop loss.

 

Trying to correct in PS or expecting the processor to get it perfect will not work.

 

Well, "getting it perfect" and the nowadays often mixed sources (even among the 'low energy' lamps you have different color temperatures) reveal perhaps a crux of the matter: it seems basically impossible -- at least without imposing your own lighting on the scene -- to get an even daylight white balance on film in artificial indoor light.

But then, would you really want that?

 

Even the eye-brain receiver equalizes only so much. We perceive a scene in warm orange tungsten or even candle light differently to one in the cool light from a greenish-blue neon tube. 'Tolerant' negative films tend to equalize these differences somewhat without filtering, but retain the characteristics of the light source(s) probably stronger than the eye -- the same goes for sensors, it appears to me. When consciously used or accepted, this can very well be an expressive part of a picture, no?

 

Alexander

[dave_d]

Well, "getting it perfect" and the nowadays often mixed sources (even among the 'low energy' lamps you have different color temperatures) reveal perhaps a crux of the matter: it seems basically impossible -- at least without imposing your own lighting on the scene -- to get an even daylight white balance on film in artificial indoor light.

But then, would you really want that?

 

It is not impossible to get mixed lighting balanced for capturing on film or digital. With a lens filters, a color meter, and color correction gels it is possible to balance light in a scene. This is common practice for many professional architectural photographers although it takes time and is dependent on the clients budget. Do you really want balanced light in a scene? This depends on the purpose of the photograph and the desires of the photographer. Balancing the light always improves the colors in a photo but is not necessary to make an interesting picture. Many times it is not feasible to balance all the light in a scene so you work with what you have.

[martinis]

Golly, this post takes me back. Amazing how quickly what was once common knowledge for all keen photograhers is soon forgotten. Used to sell loads of FLD and 80B filters, and Kodak 160T slide film.

Then there's also the colour temperature meter option of course etc etc ...

[gyoung]

Just in photographing our local churches a few years ago I came across quartz halogen, domestic tungsten, fluorescent tubes and sodium discharge.

Sometimes mixed together, with or without daylight in varying amounts.

I used more film in tests than final photos. Thank goodness for Wratten CC filters!

 

Gerry