Guest borge Posted January 7, 2013 Share #41 Posted January 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours to clean a sensor??! This isn't surgery! Did the technician use 50 swabs!? He couldn't have used three... One each hour. Sounds like a serious scam or a very inexperienced and panicky technician that was clinical and scared to touch the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Hi Guest borge, Take a look here Adventures in M-Monochrom Sensor Cleaning. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
toyfel Posted January 7, 2013 Share #42 Posted January 7, 2013 Please, stop bashing the technician. Let's just assume he was trying to do his best. Believe it or not, there are certain types of oil which are very difficult to remove completely just by using isopropyl alcohol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted January 9, 2013 Share #43 Posted January 9, 2013 There is another thing that could be related to the amount of time the technician took. As Bob confirms in post #12, it impossible to see anything on the sensor with a 7x LED-light loop because of the reflections, unlike the sensor of the M8/M9. Also, the technician use the little "stamp" tool (post #21). With a lot of oily (?) spots and streaks from the swabs I used, I can see it taking three hours when you can't see the spots and streaks with the LED loupe. I'm am surprised that only Bob in post #21 has confirmed the problem of examining the M-Monochrom with a loupe. —MItch/Bangkok Bangkok Hysteria (download link for book project) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjl Posted January 9, 2013 Share #44 Posted January 9, 2013 I can offer one additional data point. I live near enough to a Leica Shop that I have always had my M9's sensor cleaned by their technician. Service has never required more than one hour. When I took in my new Monochrom for its first cleaning a few days ago, the shop said they would need to keep the camera overnight. I asked whether there was something different about the MM but all I was told was that the MM cleaning was rather difficult relative to the M9. As the cost was the same as for cleaning the M9, they were clearly not padding the bill. So it sounds as if it is not 'just glass' they are dealing with. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjames9142 Posted January 9, 2013 Share #45 Posted January 9, 2013 My local camera store guy occasionally cleans mine for free. But I have come to the conclusion that I can live with a few dust spots. First off, I hardly ever change lenses -- I have an M9 with a 35, and another with a 28. Secondly, you only need to remove spots on files you are going to print. Third, LR removes them in a second. It doesn't take me more than a minute to clean up the sky. I read an interesting interview with the guy who creates monochrome sensors in all kinds of cameras, and he said never touch the sensor with any kind of liquid -- they all leave crud. For anyone who has tried spotting a silver print, digital cleanup is not a huge problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2013 Share #46 Posted January 9, 2013 There is another thing that could be related to the amount of time the technician took. As Bob confirms in post #12, it impossible to see anything on the sensor with a 7x LED-light loop because of the reflections, unlike the sensor of the M8/M9. Also, the technician use the little "stamp" tool (post #21). With a lot of oily (?) spots and streaks from the swabs I used, I can see it taking three hours when you can't see the spots and streaks with the LED loupe. I'm am surprised that only Bob in post #21 has confirmed the problem of examining the M-Monochrom with a loupe. —MItch/Bangkok Bangkok Hysteria (download link for book project) I used surgical telescope glasses and had no problem at all. It took me twenty minutes to give my M8, M9 and MM a thorough clean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted January 9, 2013 Share #47 Posted January 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have cleaned my own sensors for the last five years and never had any problems. Then again - I'm not surgical! As long as there are no visible dust at f/16 when shot towards a white wall I'm happy. If you look for small flaws you will find them absolutely everywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 9, 2013 Share #48 Posted January 9, 2013 And stop making it sound so easy when, sometimes it really isn't! I'm not making it difficult for fun you know. Please, stop making it sound difficult for people then. It is simple. Use a swab and isopropyl alcohol. If you have a difficult spot then use a small sensor cleaner swab and some alcohol and rub a little in that spot. Use the swabs I linked to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 9, 2013 Share #49 Posted January 9, 2013 Please, stop making it sound difficult for people then. It is simple. Use a swab and isopropyl alcohol. If you have a difficult spot then use a small sensor cleaner swab and some alcohol and rub a little in that spot. Use the swabs I linked to. Why do you find it so hard to accept that there are times when it can be genuinely hard to get a sensor properly clean? Not everyone has been as fortunate as you in this respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 9, 2013 Share #50 Posted January 9, 2013 Why do you find it so hard to accept that there are times when it can be genuinely hard to get a sensor properly clean? Not everyone has been as fortunate as you in this respect. Likewise, I don't understand why your sensor would be any harder to clean, that's all. Do you think that your sensor somehow gets something on it that mine doesn't? Maybe it does, I just don't understand why it would be any different. So, it might be the way you are cleaning it that makes the difference? I'm just trying to help because, I find it a simple task, for me anyway. Cheers, Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 9, 2013 Share #51 Posted January 9, 2013 Likewise, I don't understand why your sensor would be any harder to clean, that's all. Do you think that your sensor somehow gets something on it that mine doesn't? Maybe it does, I just don't understand why it would be any different. So, it might be the way you are cleaning it that makes the difference? I'm just trying to help because, I find it a simple task, for me anyway. Cheers, Rick Well thanks for trying to help Rick, but I honestly have no idea why its proving so hard to clean. But it is. I'm perfectly prepared to accept that its my poor technique, but its not for the want of trying as hard and being as careful and diligent as I can possibly be. So simply repeating how simple it is just leads to more frustration! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 9, 2013 Share #52 Posted January 9, 2013 Sorry. I wish you could bring it by. Maybe, you could say I told you so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted January 9, 2013 Share #53 Posted January 9, 2013 I have cleaned my own sensors for the last five years and never had any problems. Then again - I'm not surgical! As long as there are no visible dust at f/16 when shot towards a white wall I'm happy. If you look for small flaws you will find them absolutely everywhere. In my case, it wasn't an issue of looking for small flaws: my M-Monchrom suddenly had large spots at the bottom of the sensor, which means they showed clearly at the top of the frame, whenever there were skies in the picture. By swabbing with Eclipse 2, I made it worse by spreading the spots and also leaving streaks. I had no choice but ot get the sensor cleaned. The other two issues are (1) that it's impossible to see the surface of the M-Monochrom sensor with a standard 7x LED-light loupe because of the nature of the reflections (colored grid pattern), which is different from looking at M8 and M9 sensors; and (2) whether there is any difference in the difficulty of cleaning M-Monochrom sensors and cleaning M8/M9 sensors, particularly in terms of the possibility of scratching the sensor. —Mitch/Bangkok Bangkok Hysteria (download link for book project) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 9, 2013 Share #54 Posted January 9, 2013 Don't you clean the glass in front of the sensor, assuming the MM has one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 10, 2013 Share #55 Posted January 10, 2013 Also, I don't look at the sensor for spots. I swab and shoot f16 then, identify spots on the LCD screen and swab that area again then, repeat. I'm not sure if it is always necessary to look directly at the sensor. Finally, I put the image up on the computer and then re-swab if needed. I have surgical loops but, don't use them anymore for sensor cleaning. I have used them in the past to identify stubborn spots. When I get my new M I'll make a sensor cleaning video and post it on You Tube next to my "M240 unboxing" video. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted January 10, 2013 Share #56 Posted January 10, 2013 Visible Dust Digital Back Sensor Cleaning Swabs 3596346 B&H Isopropyl Alcohol 70% - Google Search That's it! Rick, I looked at some of the postings in your Google search on isopropyl alcohol, and there are some horror stories there including recommendations NOT to use it for a variety of reasons, including oily additives if you get rubbing alcohol, if you get the 70% dilution (supposed to leave smears) instead of the 99.9% solutions, etc., etc. Granted this is the web and people will write anything, but some of this may be nonsense, but nevertheless... In any case, yesterday I went to three pharmacies in the shopping center next to my house, including Boots and Watsons, and none had isopropyl alcohol; they only had ethyl alcohol. I'll see tomorrow whether I can get Smear Away at the largest camera chain in Bangkok, as I am leaving for Sri Lanka on Friday. Otherwise, I'll take my rocket blower and Arctic Butterfly. You will have gathered that my problem was not dust but oil spots, which are a lot more difficult to clean. —Mitch/Bangkok Bangkok Hysteria (download link for book project) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 10, 2013 Share #57 Posted January 10, 2013 You will always need medical grade alcohol, as it will be denaturated by bergamot oil otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 10, 2013 Share #58 Posted January 10, 2013 Grain alcohol, if it is available, will work well too. It is sold under the name Everclear in some states in the US. It is 180 proof which is as close to pure unadulterated alcohol as that type gets. On the upside.........if you get aggravated with cleaning the sensor you can drink it to ease the pain. 97% IPA which is hard to come by is another choice. It is generally sold to laboratories and licensed users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted January 10, 2013 Share #59 Posted January 10, 2013 Also, I don't look at the sensor for spots. I swab and shoot f16 then, identify spots on the LCD screen and swab that area again then, repeat. I'm not sure if it is always necessary to look directly at the sensor. Finally, I put the image up on the computer and then re-swab if needed. I have surgical loops but, don't use them anymore for sensor cleaning. I have used them in the past to identify stubborn spots. When I get my new M I'll make a sensor cleaning video and post it on You Tube next to my "M240 unboxing" video. Same as me. No loupe. Shoot at f/16 gainst a white wall - no spots = done. Spots? Re-swab that area. I always use a blower before I swab to remove loose dust. The I usually use a vacuum cleaner nozzle near the lens mount (but never let it touch of course) at low power to suck the loose dust out of the camera body. Then swab. Then clean the rear of each lens as well so it doesn't carry dust inside the body right after mounting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted January 10, 2013 Share #60 Posted January 10, 2013 A very simple way to find out where there is dirt on your sensor is to open on your computer a light blue picture (in Windows you can also take the windows blue). Shoot that at f16 while moving the camera. Import into LR and jack up contrast, clarity, and saturation, and I can assure your see EVERYTHING. Not my idea, but an idea from a dealer. Of course, you then still have to remove the dirt from the sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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