guywalder Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share #61 Posted March 25, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jaap, I know Leica are small, 3 years ago some friends and I did a tour of Solms. You know what was so striking? All they talk about is glass, glass, glass. Meanwhile the bodies are being made in Portugal (Leica were so ahead of the curve on outsourcing to low wage countries that E.Europe and Asia were not even on the map!) Marc, suddenly it makes sense to me, of course the bodies havnt kept up with professional demands, Leica simply havnt bothered about the M bodies for decades, their products are the lenses. Problem is, with digital so much more of the image making process happens in camera. Sure Leica have the problem that they are subcontracting all the digital tech, and they have a legacy of minimalist user interface. Personally I'm convinced that they could maintain a minimalist UI and still give me more in camera control for the times I want it. Before we get too excited about what new sensor and how many Mp the M9 has, lets make sure we can make maximum use of whats already available. I dont want bells and whistles, I do want control. I can put any film I want in my M7, but Leica are restricting my choices with the M8.... Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Hi guywalder, Take a look here M8, where do we go from here?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted March 26, 2007 Share #62 Posted March 26, 2007 Guy, the bodies are being made in Solms now. It is a bit of a cottage industry. It reminds me of my visit to the Morgan factory, years ago. When I mentioned that my (then) new Morgan (long since sold) had a gap between the wing and the bonnet that was half an inch wider on the righthand side than on the lefthand side, the foreman just looked at me and said: "now that you mention it, it seems they all have" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share #63 Posted March 26, 2007 Jaap, funny you should mention Morgan. I was thinking of them as well when I went through this thread. Some years ago there was a TV series featuring John Harvey Jones. He would visit various companies and give them advice on how to improve their business. He visited Morgan, and made lots of practical suggestions, nearly all of which were rejected as being not in the spirit of Morgan. Yet all he was suggesting were process improvements, the product would have been exactly the same hand built car, yet they could have tripled production with more or less the existing facilities, just by changing layout etc. The cant change, wont change attitude didnt do Morgan any favours. I am not saying that Leica are quite that bad, and I have repeated my opinion more than enough times through this thread, so I'll give it a rest now By the way, are all the bodies made in Solms? Did they close the factory in Portugal or does it still do binoculars? Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 27, 2007 Share #64 Posted March 27, 2007 Guy, as far as I know the M8 is built in Solms, the binoculars and R are made in Portugal and the other M bodies are divided. But I may be wrong. About half of the Leica workforce works there, ca 650 persons, but the balance may have shifted slightly because of the M8 expansion in Solms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 27, 2007 Share #65 Posted March 27, 2007 Guy, I remember that program. I seem to remember the cars being manually wheeled from one assembly shed to another. Then again they probably look at their order book and say "why should we change?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 27, 2007 Share #66 Posted March 27, 2007 These comparisons between Leica and Morgan surprise me. I've visited both and there IS no comparison. Morgan's arthritic products appeal to the menopausal male with discretionary income who wants some sort of nostalgic trip to a British rural idyll which doesn't exist any more, in spite of what the tourist brochures might tell you. If you want to make an automotive comparison, I'd suggest Aston Martin might be better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted March 27, 2007 Share #67 Posted March 27, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Guy, the bodies are being made in Solms now. It is a bit of a cottage industry. It reminds me of my visit to the Morgan factory, years ago. When I mentioned that my (then) new Morgan (long since sold) had a gap between the wing and the bonnet that was half an inch wider on the righthand side than on the lefthand side, the foreman just looked at me and said: "now that you mention it, it seems they all have" Jaap, this is a typical example of handmade cars like Morgans. But they changed some years ago to form the biggest parts, the wings, by vacuum-moulding. Highest tech in Great Malvern:D Another car with such wide gaps was the AH Frogeye with its huge bonnett. Nearly impossible to adjust as we can see in pictures showing the car pool waiting for the RO/RO ships for the USA. Small gaps like Audi/VW are just boring;) Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted March 27, 2007 Share #68 Posted March 27, 2007 These comparisons between Leica and Morgan surprise me. I've visited both and there IS no comparison. Morgan's arthritic products appeal to the menopausal male with discretionary income who wants some sort of nostalgic trip to a British rural idyll which doesn't exist any more, in spite of what the tourist brochures might tell you. If you want to make an automotive comparison, I'd suggest Aston Martin might be better. In near future I'll visit the Cotswoods together with my wife, Leica and the Frogeye - and I'll find these typical rural idyll, otherwise.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2007 Share #69 Posted March 27, 2007 Bernd Watch out for the Toyota LandCruisers... 99% of the time, the Cotswolds are far from a rural idyll these days, I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 27, 2007 Share #70 Posted March 27, 2007 These comparisons between Leica and Morgan surprise me. I've visited both and there IS no comparison. Morgan's arthritic products appeal to the menopausal male with discretionary income who wants some sort of nostalgic trip to a British rural idyll which doesn't exist any more, in spite of what the tourist brochures might tell you. If you want to make an automotive comparison, I'd suggest Aston Martin might be better. I suggest you try an Aero, Mark. Nothing stodgy there, all high-tech, albeit slightly cross-eyed. Be sure to wear a kidney belt. But Aston Martin - well it has gone a bit soft since Ford took over. In that league I would suggest a Dutch product which is more up to the mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted March 27, 2007 Share #71 Posted March 27, 2007 These comparisons between Leica and Morgan surprise me. I've visited both and there IS no comparison. Morgan's arthritic products appeal to the menopausal male with discretionary income who wants some sort of nostalgic trip to a British rural idyll which doesn't exist any more, in spite of what the tourist brochures might tell you. If you want to make an automotive comparison, I'd suggest Aston Martin might be better. Lol...have you had a proper ride in a Morgan? Almost scared the black paint off my fondler / wanker MP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2007 Share #72 Posted March 27, 2007 Guy, I remember that program. I seem to remember the cars being manually wheeled from one assembly shed to another. Then again they probably look at their order book and say "why should we change?" Then they had to push the chassis back up the hill to the original shed for further parts to be added. It was, and probably still is, no way to run a railway. I think the first foreman's name was Fred Karno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 27, 2007 Share #73 Posted March 27, 2007 Did he have a circus? :-) I haven't heard that phrase since my grandmother died. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 27, 2007 Share #74 Posted March 27, 2007 No, he had an "Army" Fred Karno - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted March 27, 2007 Share #75 Posted March 27, 2007 Bernd Watch out for the Toyota LandCruisers... 99% of the time, the Cotswolds are far from a rural idyll these days, I'm afraid. Thanks for this advice. There are no airbags.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted March 27, 2007 Share #76 Posted March 27, 2007 I suggest you try an Aero, Mark. Nothing stodgy there, all high-tech, albeit slightly cross-eyed. Be sure to wear a kidney belt. But Aston Martin - well it has gone a bit soft since Ford took over. In that league I would suggest a Dutch product which is more up to the mark The Aero is no longer cross eyed, they have stopped fitting VW Beetle lamps in favour of the last (obsolete) model of Mini- I hope they ordered plenty. As for "all high tech", yes the timber is now treated with Cuprinol to stop it decaying. Aston Martin is no longer owned by Ford; it has been purchased by a consortium lead by Dave Richards (Prodrive). Prodrive as in F1. If you think they are soft, presumably you don't know about the Vantage N24, DBRS9 and DBR9 customer racers, 215mph from the latter. How hard do you want to be? I was doing an interview in the Spyker pit at Le Mans in '93 an hour after the start and their car limped into the pit lane with bits hanging off, it did not get much better and was not classified at the end. The noise it was making after 3 hours was dreadful. It was very good of them to talk to me at all because I was from a a pit at the other end of the lane belonging to a small local (to me) luxury car maker. They won. And came second. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share #77 Posted March 28, 2007 If you want to make an automotive comparison, I'd suggest Aston Martin might be better. Mark, not sure about that, when they were independent AM had dreadful product reliability, and couldnt fund the investment required to keep their products up to date. After Ford bought them look what happened, reliability improved, new product development increased dramatically, Ford even worked wonders on the styling (for the most part). Everything was rosy, as long as you didnt mind driving a nice looking Ford... The only parallel with 'Leica' are the Panasonic/Leica models, and since the only difference seems to be the red badge I cant bring myself to think of them as Leicas. Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 28, 2007 Share #78 Posted March 28, 2007 Well, AM needed to be rescued by a company with deep pockets, just as Leica did. Both had lost their way in introducing new products - AM produced a series of ghastly limited editions as did Leica with the Hermes connection, thinking that was the way to economic salvation. They've both been turned around. Ford decided they didn't like being in the business of making profitable cars and sold out, albeit for less than they expected. If you believe Andreas Kaufmann, ACM have bought Leica for the long term. Many cars made in smaller volumes share components with other vendors. Visit Porsche in Leipzig and you see Cayennes being built. Actually, they arrive 4 in a box car from a VW plant in Bratislava 90% complete and just have the engine put in to make it "Made in Germany". It's the automotive equivalent of sticking on the Red Dot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share #79 Posted March 28, 2007 It's the automotive equivalent of sticking on the Red Dot. noooo, fitting Rover badges to Hondas, or Daimler badges to XJ6s is the automotive equivalent. It was all the rage in the 80s, until the automotive industry woke up to the damage it does to your brand. I hope Leica/ACM are aware of that. While no great fan of Ford, I think they did a good job with AM. How AM get on as a tiny fish in a great big ocean remains to be seen. Hopefully Dave Richards and his partners will do a better job than the Phoenix 4 did with Rover!! Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 28, 2007 Share #80 Posted March 28, 2007 The Aero is no longer cross eyed, they have stopped fitting VW Beetle lamps in favour of the last (obsolete) model of Mini- I hope they ordered plenty. As for "all high tech", yes the timber is now treated with Cuprinol to stop it decaying. Aston Martin is no longer owned by Ford; it has been purchased by a consortium lead by Dave Richards (Prodrive). Prodrive as in F1. If you think they are soft, presumably you don't know about the Vantage N24, DBRS9 and DBR9 customer racers, 215mph from the latter. How hard do you want to be? I was doing an interview in the Spyker pit at Le Mans in '93 an hour after the start and their car limped into the pit lane with bits hanging off, it did not get much better and was not classified at the end. The noise it was making after 3 hours was dreadful. It was very good of them to talk to me at all because I was from a a pit at the other end of the lane belonging to a small local (to me) luxury car maker. They won. And came second. I love the Cuprenol bit. When I visited the factory in the early eighties I happened to wander into the development shed, and found a body being built out of laminated and honeycombed aluminium material.I was kicked out before I could photograph it I have always wondered what happened to that project. Maybe this post would fit better in Barnacks Bar btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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