tashley Posted March 21, 2007 Share #1 Posted March 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Good evening Folks! Got some new glass in the last week and have been torture testing it against some of the older kit. The idea of this is to show full sized images shot on the above lenses, DNG saved as RAW, so people can peep in detail should they wish. The shots were taken in and around a very beautiful, isolated church in Sussex and I think they show that the CV15 is great but the WATE is better (as you'd expect) and that the astonishingly cheap CV 35mm 'pancake' (the one with the M mount) lens is a hero. For a taster and to set the scene, here's a small one from the WATE at 16mm F11: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Now for the WATE vs the CV, both at f 6.5 to flatter to CV. Both at 1/3rd second, tripod, ISO 160, both unfiltered http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/p477960518.jpg (CV) http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/p484304439.jpg (WATE) Now the Pancake versus the cron, both at F4, tripod, 1/30th, ISO 160 and both with 486 cut filters http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/p520322429.jpg (CV 35 pancake) http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/p384664199.jpg (Cron 25 F2) Hope these are even vaguely useful to someone! Tim ps there are those who think I have a dodgy cron. It's a long story. Neither I nor Solms think I do but there's a very long thread somewhere nearby if you're interested... ;-) Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Now for the WATE vs the CV, both at f 6.5 to flatter to CV. Both at 1/3rd second, tripod, ISO 160, both unfiltered http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/p477960518.jpg (CV) http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/p484304439.jpg (WATE) Now the Pancake versus the cron, both at F4, tripod, 1/30th, ISO 160 and both with 486 cut filters http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/p520322429.jpg (CV 35 pancake) http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/p384664199.jpg (Cron 25 F2) Hope these are even vaguely useful to someone! Tim ps there are those who think I have a dodgy cron. It's a long story. Neither I nor Solms think I do but there's a very long thread somewhere nearby if you're interested... ;-) ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/19421-shootout-in-church-wate-v-cv15-35cron-v-35cv-pancake/?do=findComment&comment=208139'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Hi tashley, Take a look here Shootout in church: WATE v. CV15, 35Cron v. 35CV Pancake. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
DavidStone Posted March 21, 2007 Share #2 Posted March 21, 2007 Impressive stuff. Where were you focused in the two interior shots? I agree that the WATE is marginally better than the CV, but the 15mm really is an amazing len for the price. The pancake seems worth getting for any reason, cost or performance. And where are you buying your CV lenses? I'm going over to London at the end of the month and I can't seem to locate a supplier there. Thanks Tim, this is really useful. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted March 21, 2007 Impressive stuff. Where were you focused in the two interior shots?I agree that the WATE is marginally better than the CV, but the 15mm really is an amazing len for the price. The pancake seems worth getting for any reason, cost or performance. And where are you buying your CV lenses? I'm going over to London at the end of the month and I can't seem to locate a supplier there. Thanks Tim, this is really useful. David Hi David, There's a shop called robert white http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/ in Bournemouth, they ship overnight and they are good. Not sure in London, I think not. The interior shots were focussed on the far edge of the lectern so as to get all the backwards DOF but make the words readable, which some are! Best Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Brittenson Posted March 21, 2007 Share #4 Posted March 21, 2007 The WATE looks slightly brighter and lower contrast than the CV15. Very nice... I wonder if this is retained in A mode, or whether it will get shifted down the scale somewhat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveP Posted March 21, 2007 Share #5 Posted March 21, 2007 Classic Camera in Pied Bull Yard (near the British Museum) has a reasonable selection of CV lenses (despite claiming to be "Leica only") should you wish to shop there. Jessops Classic (across the yard) although slowly going out of business has some CV lenses in stock. Aperture Camera (around the corner) has a few used CV lenses and finally R G Lewis a few blocks away usually has some new and used CV equipment available. Always best to call or e-mail in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted March 21, 2007 Share #6 Posted March 21, 2007 Tim, Thanks for sharing these. Your 35 'cron: would that be the ASPH? - Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidStone Posted March 21, 2007 Share #7 Posted March 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi David, There's a shop called robert white Photographic Equipment Sales - Robert White in Bournemouth, they ship overnight and they are good. Not sure in London, I think not. The interior shots were focussed on the far edge of the lectern so as to get all the backwards DOF but make the words readable, which some are! Best Tim Thanks Tim. I've located Robert White and he could be a good bet for mail order. But since I have a day in London next week I thought I'd like to buy over the counter, if possible. Thanks also to Steve for extra suggestions. In fact, I've ordered an M8 from Classic Camera, but their customer service has really gone down the pan. I'm getting semi-literate e-mails from them (when they even bother to reply) so I can't say that I'm too keen on continuing to buy from them. I'll scoot round on my one day in town and see what I can find. The treasure-chest is going to be a bit drained after my M8 purchase, but Tim's shot using the CV35 puts that top of the shopping list (M8 + the pancake lens is a really pocketable combination) or the CV15 ... ? Hmmm ... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 21, 2007 Share #8 Posted March 21, 2007 Robert White are, IMHO, a much better bet than Classic who charge top prices and deliver mediocre service. I bought my R-D1 (which I haven't touched since the M8 arrived) and one of my M8s from RW who were excellent. Unless I'm missing something, I prefer the Summicron shot, look at the brick work to the right of the door. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfogle Posted March 21, 2007 Share #9 Posted March 21, 2007 I was in Classic Cameras last week, and they told me they no longer stock or sell CV lenses. I do buy s/h lenses from them occasionally, but only over the counter where I can handle them. RW I would buy from remotely, and have done so with no complaints for their service. Sadly, it appears that RW are both agents and retailers of CV products, and are unwilling to sell on to other suppliers at wholesale prices, thus in effect maintaining a monopoly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Brittenson Posted March 21, 2007 Share #10 Posted March 21, 2007 The cron seems to pick up subtle hue differences in the bricks a little better. It could be a difference in lighting, but with the CV the bricks to the right of the door seem more uniform and with less hue differentiation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Brittenson Posted March 21, 2007 Share #11 Posted March 21, 2007 I've bought a bunch of MF gear from RW and have nothing but good things to say about them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted March 21, 2007 Share #12 Posted March 21, 2007 Hi Tim You don't mess around do you! These are great and useful (I'm on the brink of ordering that pancake). Just a couple of questions: is the contrast really that much greater with the CV15 over the WATE, or did the lighting change between shots (and why are the file names so completely different?). Have a great time in Barcelona - I'll look forward to the shots Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted March 22, 2007 Tim,Thanks for sharing these. Your 35 'cron: would that be the ASPH? - Carl Yup, current model, delivered last week... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted March 22, 2007 Thanks Tim. I've located Robert White and he could be a good bet for mail order. But since I have a day in London next week I thought I'd like to buy over the counter, if possible. Thanks also to Steve for extra suggestions. In fact, I've ordered an M8 from Classic Camera, but their customer service has really gone down the pan. I'm getting semi-literate e-mails from them (when they even bother to reply) so I can't say that I'm too keen on continuing to buy from them. I'll scoot round on my one day in town and see what I can find. The treasure-chest is going to be a bit drained after my M8 purchase, but Tim's shot using the CV35 puts that top of the shopping list (M8 + the pancake lens is a really pocketable combination) or the CV15 ... ? Hmmm ... David Just remember that the CV35 comes in two flavours. One is a crew mount and you can get an old Leitz screw-to-M adaptor wide enough to take hand-coding. The other is a native M mount but there's a screw where the code needs to go so I'm not sure it'll work. However I'm not so far seeing cyans with it with a filter on and the camera does record it as a 35mm to EXIF, though not yet sure if that's because I left lens detection on after changing from the cron. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted March 22, 2007 Hi TimYou don't mess around do you! These are great and useful (I'm on the brink of ordering that pancake). Just a couple of questions: is the contrast really that much greater with the CV15 over the WATE, or did the lighting change between shots (and why are the file names so completely different?). Have a great time in Barcelona - I'll look forward to the shots Hi Jono! The filenames are changed by Zenfolio... in fact they were sequential shots. As for the contrast, the light was shifting a lot in there, scudding clouds outside and so on. But so far I do find the CV a bit more contrasty though I don't have a big enough sample to say for sure. Keep well! T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted March 22, 2007 The light was shifting rapidly so it's hard to say - also I did nothing in PP, just opened them in Lightroom, and any amount of possibilities will certainly exist in either file. The cron is a little soft in the centre, the pancake a bit smeary on the left but only sometimes - I think it's a DOF thing at a certain point on the lens. T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelc Posted March 22, 2007 Share #17 Posted March 22, 2007 so think about it...the wate is $3500 and the cv is $350?...there's incredibly small difference in performance compared with incredibly large difference in price,,,I find this true with other cv lenses (in comparison to leica glass) as well...it's also a testament to how good the m8 is that it can draw so well regardelss of the lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted March 22, 2007 Share #18 Posted March 22, 2007 Just remember that the CV35 comes in two flavours. One is a crew mount and you can get an old Leitz screw-to-M adaptor wide enough to take hand-coding. The other is a native M mount but there's a screw where the code needs to go so I'm not sure it'll work. However I'm not so far seeing cyans with it with a filter on and the camera does record it as a 35mm to EXIF, though not yet sure if that's because I left lens detection on after changing from the cron. Tim Hi Tim, You'll see the cyan drift with a 486 on any of the 35s (over time). The three flavors of CV 35s are supposed to be optically identical. I own the 35 Skopar and Pancake II -- prefer the former because it is more compact and can be used with my milled adapters. One can hand-code the P II but it will wear off, etc. As I've said many times on this forum, *many* of the CV lenses are exceptional. The 50 Nokton is outstanding, for example. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 22, 2007 Share #19 Posted March 22, 2007 Shot this weird robot today with the WATE at about F11 was really trying to catch the DOF which was 10 feet from the front of the robot to the big screens . I believe i was at 18mm. I simply could not get the room dark enough for the background, really tough to balance this one with daylight pouring in Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/19421-shootout-in-church-wate-v-cv15-35cron-v-35cv-pancake/?do=findComment&comment=208460'>More sharing options...
tashley Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share #20 Posted March 22, 2007 Hi Tim, You'll see the cyan drift with a 486 on any of the 35s (over time). The three flavors of CV 35s are supposed to be optically identical. I own the 35 Skopar and Pancake II -- prefer the former because it is more compact and can be used with my milled adapters. One can hand-code the P II but it will wear off, etc. As I've said many times on this forum, *many* of the CV lenses are exceptional. The 50 Nokton is outstanding, for example. Cheers, Sean Thanks Sean, I'll try to code the lens. That screw is just in the wrong place though! I've yet to see significant cyan with a 35/486 combo but I do appreciate it's lurking! Best Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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