Lightroom or Aperature

[intex]

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What program would be best for an advanced amateur photographer using the M8: Apple's Aperature or Lightroom for Mac?

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[andybarton]

Unless you hack a raw.plist file and accept compromises in the colour range used, Lightroom is the only option of the two listed, and will be until Apple choose to support the Leica DNG files.

 

DMR files will never be supported, from what I have read.

[jonoslack]

Unless you hack a raw.plist file and accept compromises in the colour range used, Lightroom is the only option, and will be until Apple choose to support the Leica DNG files.

 

DMR files will never be supported, from what I have read.

You do have to hack the raw.plist file - but it's easy, and I don't believe you have to accept colour compromises.

 

I spent a week with Lightroom because of this, and went back to aperture again.

[ptomsu]

You do have to hack the raw.plist file - but it's easy, and I don't believe you have to accept colour compromises.

 

I spent a week with Lightroom because of this, and went back to aperture again.

 

I am so sorry for you going back to Aperture - LR is not only the program which seamlessly supports almost all RAW files (like DMR and M8 DNGs), but has also much more potntial and better GUI compared to Aperture.

 

Hope all the best for you using Aperture - GOOD LUCK!!!

[andybarton]

My understanding, from reading the hack and trying in vain to get it to work on a DMR file, was that you had to trick Aperture into believing that the M8 file was, in fact, a Nikon file (or something similar).

 

This would mean that the file that is being edited in Aperture, would not be the real true representation of the Leica RAW file, but the RAw file seen through "Nikon" filters, as it were. The colour profile of a Nikon chip is bound to be different from that of the M8 chip.

[jonoslack]

My understanding, from reading the hack and trying in vain to get it to work on a DMR file, was that you had to trick Aperture into believing that the M8 file was, in fact, a Nikon file (or something similar).

 

This would mean that the file that is being edited in Aperture, would not be the real true representation of the Leica RAW file, but the RAw file seen through "Nikon" filters, as it were. The colour profile of a Nikon chip is bound to be different from that of the M8 chip.

Hi Andy

Try it! That's all I can say.

[jonoslack]

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I am so sorry for you going back to Aperture - LR is not only the program which seamlessly supports almost all RAW files (like DMR and M8 DNGs), but has also much more potntial and better GUI compared to Aperture.

 

Hope all the best for you using Aperture - GOOD LUCK!!!

HI There

RAW file support is undoubtedly better - but I have spent a lot of time with Lightroom over all the betas, and the idea that the GUI is better . . . . well it must be a matter of opinion, but I'm astonished!

[andybarton]

I would. I did! But being the "poor" owner of a DMR, the hack just cannot be made to work...

[Giulio Zanni]

I was a fun of Aperture, then I switched to Lightroom because tired of waiting for Aperture to support raw files from various cameras and I discovered a complete new world. Lightroom is much ahead of Aperture in every respect. Just an example: selective color correction, you just move your mouse over the different settings to see the image changing without actually having to make the change and go back if you don't like it etc.

But last and not least, it supports all Leica raw files, right now!

 

Giulio

[Guest WPalank]

As a DAM program, Aperture can't be beat. But I have to say I have grown to love LR. I think the tone curve is a bit more sophisticated than aperture's levels. Plus, if I remember corectly, Aperture only gives you 6 colors in the HSL (Hue, Saturation, Lightness) panel where LR gives you 8 including orange which I have found to be invaluable in tweaking skin tones from the M8.

[hiphop]

After one month testing the trial free version of LR I have to admit that LR is a great tool.

I just bought it and did benefit of the discount for early booker.

I was first impressed by Aperture when testing it at the beginning but found very difficult to come back from LR experience after one month. You have excellent free tutorials on the adobe web site http://www.photoshopsupport.com/lightroom/tutorials.html.

You should have a look at these tutorials and will understand why LR is great and easy to use.

I am a real fan of Mac products but in this case (IMHO) LR has gained all my favours.

[elopezso]

Why just Aperture or Lightroom?

 

I have tried them both as well as Capture 1 with Edmund's loSattuned2 profile and it wins hands down.

 

As I said in a prior thread. Aperture's colors are vibrant & gorgeous but not necessarily accurate.

 

Lightroom was really good but the overall effect was too cool & harsh; I am not a fan of cool in pics. The pics seem almost plasticy to me because of it.

 

C1 with Edmund's LoSat Tuned2 profile is dead on the money. In a pic I took and included in a prior thread, not only were the faces perfect with no rosacea or magenta but the jacket colors were right on the money. The pics also did not have a plasticy, cool look to them like the Lightroom pics had. This profile is a winner.

 

You might also want to try Silkypix which was the warmest with good color rendition but the faces were a tad cyan; the overall effect, however, was very pleasant especially in pics with no people in them!

 

So, don't think that your choices are so limited.

 

Download a few and try them out.

 

Ed

[Eoin]

As a long time user of Aperture (relatively speaking) I question some of the statements made here. I don't believe there is any colour compromise involved in using aperture but rather a compromise using other converters such as Capture One or Lightroom.

 

Using the Nikon profile within aperture does give slightly muted colours straight off but this can be balanced quite easily by the saturation sliders.

 

What most people complain about is the magenta hues in C1 or lightroom and if you wish you can have them as well in aperture by keying in the Matrix 1 & 2 values you get by running the DNG through Adobe DNG and then through exiftool. Transfer these into aperture and bingo you'll get the same oversaturated strong magenta cast images.

 

I always remember with other camera raws you needed to develop the image in any of the converters but now with the Leica DNG we seem to get an image with such punch of colour little or no development is needed in the likes of C1 or LR.

 

As a simple test take a program like DCRaw and run your DNG through it and output it as a TIFF. Import this along with the original DNG into your chosen converter and see the difference a straight decode rather than your converters version looks like.

 

Just remember before you slate Aperture, the Matrix 1&2 and calibration setting are key to a well developed profile, these very settings were changed by Leica in fw 1.092 and I suspect they will require further if not alternating values in fw 1.10 depending on if you use IR/Cut filters or not.

 

Raw converters are a personal choice as was film and to some extent raw converters give outputs as diverse as various film brands. Most are free to try, try them all then settle on the one that suits what you want to achieve, perhaps you'll be like me, I have them all Silkypix, CS2/3, C1Pro, C1Le, Lightroom v1.0 and Aperture. Each have strong points and all have faults. Pick your poison.

 

As for me, time and time again I feel more at home with aperture, it's my "Kodachrome" with DAM on steroids.

[woodda]

I would say LR is a good program but having used Iview I miss the ability to view video clips if a member in the family has a video camera. Any body know if there a program either specifically for video, and equivalent of light room in features and DAM

 

Cheers

[Joe Mondello]

So Jono, What is this hack and how does I do it?

 

I am on the cusp of purchasing Lightroom (which is OK, but I vastly prefer Aperture) just for the M8.

 

Hey can I get a hack to make Aperture see my Epson RAW files too?

[wlaidlaw]

You do have to hack the raw.plist file - but it's easy, and I don't believe you have to accept colour compromises.

 

I spent a week with Lightroom because of this, and went back to aperture again.

 

Jonathan,

 

I asked someone on another thread but did not get a reply. Could you please talk me through the plist hack for Aperture. I have tried Aperture and Lightroom 30 day trials and I much prefer the interface of Aperture. If I can get equal results, I would prefer to use it. Does the plist hack mean that the EXIF's will show a Nikon rather than a Leica M8?

 

It may seem trivial but after using Lightroom for two days, the acres of dark grey background screen were making me feel really depressed.

 

Wilson

[newyorkone]

My personal take on it is...

 

If you've never used or plan to use Photoshop then go with Aperture. You might like the UI.

 

But if you are used to working in Photoshop, Aperture's UI will drive you crazy. I know it drove me crazy and just didn't feel intuitive at all. Especially the little zoom window.

 

I tried Aperture and even bought it, but after trying Lightroom, the UI is so familiar and just makes sense. Admittedly this might be because of my Photoshop background, but that's why I prefaced my comment.

 

I believe both have trials. Try them both and see which one you like better. For me it was Lightroom hands down.

[andybarton]

Wilson

 

A search on the forum for "raw.plist" found this.

 

I am pretty sure this is what you are looking for.

 

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/16559-how-use-aperture-m8-dng-files.html

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[nryn]

I am so sorry for you going back to Aperture - LR is not only the program which seamlessly supports almost all RAW files (like DMR and M8 DNGs), but has also much more potntial and better GUI compared to Aperture.

 

Hope all the best for you using Aperture - GOOD LUCK!!!

 

I really hope that people are seriously weighing the alternatives here and not considering use of either program some kind of enlightened state of being, the other camp wallowing in ignorance. I go to dpreview for that kind of argumentation (which is why I don't go to dpreview).

 

I don't know what kind of logic leads anyone to believe that LR has more potential. The fact is that both programs have lots of potential and out of the necessity stimulated by competition will grow significantly in different areas. LR has nowhere near the asset management functionality or file handling capability of Aperture (you cannot shoot remotely, edit the shoot, then import it to another computer using Lightroom), and LR certainly bests aperture in its innovative developing UI.

 

Though native M8 support is of course a very real issue for perhaps all of us here, I don't think choosing a program solely based on that kind of support is a good long-term strategy. Think about the effort you put into editing and maintaining your library. Whichever program allows you to do that most efficiently is probably the best way to go, and I think that it won't be too long before that's just a matter of preference rather than a compromise on features. For me, so far it's Aperture, because I do travel a lot and do spend a lot of time editing photos and collections remotely. I don't want to have to wait until I get home to start editing my collections. This is a real workflow concern. The M8 support situation in Aperture is, I believe, a temporary situation which probably depends more on Leica getting their act together with 1.1 than it does on Apple, and Eoin's workaround is not wholly inelegant.

 

I should say that I by no means have decided which program to settle on, but it'll be a long term decision. I've been with iView since 1.0, and after 40K+ pictures, it's not a decision I'll be making on a whim.

 

Cheers.

[carstenw]

As you can probably deduce from the wildly varying answers here, both Lightroom and Aperture are very good programs with each their own strengths and weaknesses. Lightroom is faster and has a more streamlined GUI, Aperture has a deeper file management feature set, and some prefer the colour, and so on.

 

I personally like both, but after testing Aperture for a few months, I ended up preferring Lightroom. Aperture currently does not support the M8, but this should change with the release of firmware 1.10.

 

I would recommend that you try both out and see which you prefer. These things are very personal, and not something which a thread like this can answer.