Lines of Mint Leicas - what a joke!

[jonoslack]

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Hi There

Back in October, when I started to frequent leica shops looking for s/h lenses for my R-D1, I was amazed at the quality - rows of mint condition M6 and M7 cameras, perfect lenses looking like they hadn't even been used.

 

I was seriously impressed - Leica must build their kit really really well . . . . . . . . . I've now had my chrome M8 since November, and it's coddle has been thoroughly mollied - Always in a Billingham bag - no contact between different bits - careful careful. I've taken around 6000 shots, and, looking at it now:

 

The corners have become shinier than the rest of the chrome, there are scuff marks on the chrome at the top and front, the black plate at the back (with buttons and LCD) has shiny corners, and the baseplate on the grip (black grip) has gone silver and shiny on the leading edge where my hand goes. Most of the lenses (all black) have a couple of specks where the black chrome has been 'chipped' - including the WATE, which I've only had for ten days.

 

So I had a look at my faithful old E1 - it's been dropped in the bottom of boats, plonked down on sandy beaches, plonked down on pebbly beaches - put away in bags full of dust blown from Greek mountains, splashed with salt spray, coated with suntan lotion and generally bashed around (and it's taken 24000 shots too) - I cleaned it recently, and it has no marks, no shiny corners, no scratches - basically, it's mint.

 

Now, then - you'll be getting the wrong end of the stick here - I like the Leica better for it's lived in look - like an old pair of levis (although from the days when they suddenly faded much more quickly!).

 

My point is that all those mint condition Leicas - there really is only one possible conclusion to draw - THEY WERE ALMOST NEVER USED!!!! I don't believe for a minute that the finish on the M8 is that much worse.

 

I'm sure that there are lots of people who really did put their cameras to use - but it may just be that Leica are faced with the horrible prospect of a new generation of photographers who actually use their cameras!

[doubice]

My point is that all those mint condition Leicas - there really is only one possible conclusion to draw - THEY WERE ALMOST NEVER USED!!!! I don't believe for a minute that the finish on the M8 is that much worse.

 

Unfortunately, very true........

 

Jan

[bayerische]

I think your on to something here.

 

My M6 is manufactured in 88 or was it 86, can't remember, but it looks as if I've used it twice .

 

Now I've maybe taken 50 rolls of film with it since I bought it this autumn, but still, during these 50 rolls and about 5months I've gotten more marks on it than it had from the beginning.

 

I saw a "used" M2 at my Leica dealer 2 weeks ago, and yes, this one had indeed been back and forth to Africa a few times, it worked perfectly, but was not so nice to look at anymore:).

[stevem7]

6 months of daily use out of my M7 and it looked like Brand new when I sold it. Same with my MP (besides a small scratch that was my fault) - My M8, being a few weeks old and 3000 shots fired looks a little used. My M7/MP felt better made than my M8. My MP, when holding it felt very solid. Like a solid piece of metal. The M8 is a little more lightweight and delicate in my opinion, but still better made than a 5D! Besides, a few scuffs here and there add character!

[Guest magyarman]

I don't believe for a minute that the finish on the M8 is that much worse.

 

Than probably is no point try tell you something truth. Mine M6 schwartz got three and twenty years, it have not looks like just from box oba doesnot have bat dammage too. In this time Leica was bild for lasted full life. Digital camera does not require someone will want to use after twenty years, why Leica suppose cost it more so make available to looks like was new after so many time?

[Guest stnami]

I see that Leica has its new range of glass cabinets out......http://www.leicahahacabinets.biz

[ho_co]

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I see that Leica has its new range of glass cabinets out...

And I heard on the BBC today that some works of art are being returned from Switzerland to Afghanistan, including a glass phallus that was supposedly touched by Alexander the Great. (video at http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6450000/newsid_6452700/6452737.stm?bw=nb&mp=rm)

 

No mention of scratches, but I'm not asking any questions.

 

--HC

[j. borger]

Winogrand is known to shoot LOTSSS of pictures ....... this is how his M4 looked after some serious use...

 

Leica M4 Garry Winogrand

[marknorton]

Certainly a camera like that looks great, a real road warrior. It's getting there that's the problem. Those early scratches and dents, "tut, tut, you're not looking after your camera", before you break through some ill-defined barrier...

 

I once visited a fake antique furniture place where having made the table or whatever, they set about it with chains and other instruments of torture to instantly age it by a couple of hundred years.

 

Perhaps Leica should be selling pre-aged cameras in the same way?

[timd.]

Perhaps Leica should be selling pre-aged cameras in the same way?

 

leica à la carte 'stonewashed' seems to be a good idea. but i guess in this forum there will be discussions about how to keep the 'original-solms-stonewashed-look' from wearing, and the whole thing starts over again.

 

...but maybe this is only a specialty of the german forum ?

 

-tim-

[frc]

At Fender guitars you can get ,,relics", prescrached and bumped.

No question you're paying a little extra.

[egibaud]

with or without scratches my M8's look is perfect.

 

I love it when someone comes closer to me and says:

 

two options here:

 

1- you are not using digital anymore? has your other camera broken and you have to use this old camera again? or Leica.... what is that? a rusian made analogical camera? or That's an old camera, there is a screen on the back, then it must be one of the first digital camera. They normaly conclude that given the amount of pic I make I should buy a new camera.

 

2- the other option is.... from someone speaking in a lower voice... a Leica M8... waoo you know how to treat yourself :-)

 

I just love the look and feel, and I can tell you that 80% of the time people have no idea of what this camera is, what it cost etc.

 

Eric

[george +]

I do not coddle my cameras either. They come with me to odd places, are thrown in bags without cover and have shot many thousands of pictures.

 

Yet my 35+ years old black M5 just shows - to me - gentle looking wear around the corners and the four month old chrome M8 has no marks at all.

 

There is nothing wrong with a camera showing wear. But your wear sounds a bit on the heavy end. At any rate, enjoy the pictures it takes.

[jonoslack]

HI Everyone

I think prize goes to the stonewashed leica idea - why put up with all that new shine!

 

I have to say though, now mine is looking a little used, it's much more relaxing to shoot with - a little more marks won't make much difference.

 

Thanks everyone for chipping in - George; most of the marks on mine are simple wear at the corners and leading edge of the base plate - they can't really be as a result of anything but handling. I did point it out to Leica when it went back for the 'fix' - they kept it for an extra few days (punishment for daring to presume? - but came back with no comment.

[Jfelder2@nyc.rr.com]

I've had my black M8 since before Thanksgiving. The edges are already starting to wear bronzy. Beautiful. On my Canon 20D, the black on the edges has worn down to white plastic. Nothing's prettier than a piece of gear that has been used and shows it!

 

http://www.SnapshotArtifact.org

[ken_tanaka]

Jono: Two comments regarding your observation. First, while the earlier model M cameras were known for being rugged and durable cameras the fact is that they became principally the cameras of tourists and photo enthusiasts. (The leather-cased rangefinder dangling from the neck became an iconic synonym for "American Tourist" in the 1950's and 1960's.) Neither of these groups puts their cameras to very hard use. Look at all of the excellent/mint condition digital slr bodies for sale today.

 

Second, Leica cameras became collectible items many decades ago. Since the late 1960's (to my knowledge) Japanese collectors, for example, would buy new M cameras and never open them. They would shrink-wrap the boxes, sometimes get radiographs (x-rays) as records of the contents, and lock them away in vaults for future sale. These cameras do occasionally appear in private sales and auctions but not at camera stores.

 

Cameras, in general, are rarely used to death. They tend to die quiet, clean deaths in closets and drawers with tens of thousands of untaken photos in their shutters. Leicas have been particular leaders in this phenomenon due, in part, to its camera-as-jewelry attraction (still strong today, as evidenced by most of the conversations on this board).

[jerryharwood]

Interesting comments; i have an old 1986 M6; it has been USED, here in UK, Germany, and France, in all weathers and conditions; i am a photojournalist, and also use an R7, and an Digilux 2. The M6, R7, are both mint, no brassing, dents or otherwise. The Digilux 2, I bought new, in 2002. After three weeks of use it marked, particularly round the swivels for the straps. i got the impression that the finish was paint, rather than silver chrome which i was expecting. I was not over impressed with the finish, and queried this with Leica, but got no comment. AS this was an expensive item, I would expect it to have the same quality as the other leica mechanical cameras. Having said that, i had a R8 from new- it was the worst camera i have ever used, and was totally unreliable ! I think therefore, that the Mseries, and the older R series was the best that Leica ever built, sadly not the case now. You would think that given the cost of the M8, it would have at least the finish and quality of a £3000 camera, even if the electronics are bog standard

panasonic !

[jaapv]

What hasPanasonic got to do with the electronics of the M8? The finish is the same as my earlier M6,M4.M3 etc..The same dents and scuffs I always managed to get on my camera's. Only I wist the black stuff was more like the old, although it seems to wear well

[footnoteblog]

Yeah.

 

Get in the water; it's warm!

 

you gotta get in on the action

 

splashes and all

 

Really!

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[davidmires]

My M6ttl is about 5 years old, and looks used. No big scratches or dents, but shiny around the areas of wear. My M8 looks shiny on the edges too, but no brass. I think one would have to try hard to expose the brass on the M8 finish. That stuff seems pretty tough. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before a black paint M8 becomes available though...

At Fender guitars you can get ,,relics", prescrached and bumped.

No question you're paying a little extra.

I have one of these, a Stratocaster '62 relic. There is a lot more that goes into these guitars than just wear. The concept is kind of silly, but they are built with only the very best components, old-school lacquers, cloth wrapped wire, hand wound pickups, individually chosen woods, and they are built by the most skilled luthiers...

Mine is the nicest sounding and playing Strat' that I have ever picked up. (and I've tried a lot of them:o ) I picked it up and it just came alive in my hands, like leica glass for the ears:D , but, yes, like a black paint Leica: No question you are paying a little extra for vibe...

Cheers, David.