Help Me Solve The Shutdown Problem

[fotografr]

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There have been quite a number of questions raised, so rather than "quote" and answer each one seperately, I'll try to do it in one post.

 

--I download with a card reader which is a USB 2 device connected to a USB 2 port on my PC.

 

--I have experienced these failures with both a SanDisk Ultra II 2 GB card purchased from B&H, and a Kingston ultimate 2GB. Both are listed as ok by Leica.

 

--I've tried exchanging the battery with one that I know to be fully charged.

 

--In Solms, my camera worked perfectly using the same battery that was in my camera when it failed here.

 

--It was suggested that either the top or bottom plate could be causing the problem. I suppose that is a possibility, but I'm leaning more toward the card reader as the culprit. I don't know whether Leica have tested different card readers for compatibility.

 

My first course of action here will be to try a different battery charged by a different charger. At the same time, I will use a different memory card. This won't happen until the weekend, but I'll post the results.

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[eronald]

The following is not meant to be a facetious post. Back in the early 70's I part owned a consultancy, which specialized in quality and reliability for the UK motor industry (we failed). During that period, I went to a seminar on quality control in Zurich. One of the speakers was from Breitling, the Swiss watch manufacturer. He said that it was well known that there were certain people on whom watches simply would not function properly and they had no real idea why but that it might be something to do with personal static electrical fields.

 

In that this forum has its suspicions as to the M8's vulnerability to static electricity, I just wonder if this might explain why certain members are suffering multiple camera failures and some none. Not very helpful I know but if perhaps you put a small piece of aluminium foil where the bottom plate goes over the locating tag, that might improve electrical bonding and forestall the next failure.

 

Wilson

The Leicas with their solid bodies probably don't have externally induced static problems; however friction inside eg. by vibration could cause a charge to build up in an interior component. I really really don't like the plastic battery case.

 

Edmund

[fuchs]

These have been my thoughts all along even going back to my failure back in December. ABCDE. Never thought of the top plate.

 

I included the top plate tongue in cheek, but I think those three factors that you mention, SD, battery or charger are the most obvious candidates, no doubt. But then, Sean Reid's observations of strong statics in the environment at the time of his camera failure made me include it in the list.

 

Ed

[Eikonphoto]

Wilson, those people who have static problems are usually told to wear grounding straps when they are at home or office. Kinda like being on a leash, I suppose. Remember those old chrome springy things that jutted out from the bottom sides of cars to scrape a curb and disperse the static electricity?

 

I wore a static band several years ago when some cards (microdrives way back when) would self destruct from static charges. It was not a 'leash' style one and actully looked more like a watch. it was pretty helpful. It may not be a bad idea to get one, just to take that element out of the mix.

[fuchs]

--I've tried exchanging the battery with one that I know to be fully charged.

It maybe that your charger said it was fully charged, convinced the battery to think so, and it so told the camera, who in its turn said so to you via the top LCD.

 

--It was suggested that either the top or bottom plate could be causing the problem. I suppose that is a possibility, but I'm leaning more toward the card reader as the culprit. I don't know whether Leica have tested different card readers for compatibility.

Knowing that the only piece exchanged by Leica was the flash shoe with the Serial Number, I would exclude the top plate, as it wasn't the same. But I suspect that Solms also did a full internal ROM reset on the camera, as to change also the serial number that gets imprinted in the EXIF data of each file. Could you please confirm this, opening an incamera JPG and reading the corresponding EXIF field to see if its SN# matches the one on the flash shoe?

 

My first course of action here will be to try a different battery charged by a different charger. At the same time, I will use a different memory card. This won't happen until the weekend, but I'll post the results.

If you change one variable at a time it can be easier to get to the offending factor. I have a strong feeling that with a fresh battery charged in a new, non-defective charger you should not be experiencing a new lock up.

 

We'll be looking forward to hear from you.

Best of lucks

 

Ed

[fotografr]

My camera will take a picture with no sd card at all. It even appears quickly in the lcd as a review image. Why not try this simple test without any card in your camera. If all works you have eliminated that problem and can next concentrate on the battery/charger issue.

 

Good suggestion. I just tried that and it did record images. At the same time, I don't know that this gets us any closer because I can also still record images with the card in the camera. I just can't access anything on the LCD using the back buttons.

[sdai]

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Can you guys who understand the electronics explain the operational sequence and point to areas where a failure might occur? They must be some explanation for all this - some incompatibility issue or software glitch, as opposed to repeated hardware failures. If you were handed a failed camera, how would you go about checking to see what went wrong with it?

Let me (first) say this is second hand information and it's from a person who has worked on digital cameras:

 

It appears this is a glitch in M8's power subsystem design, nothing to do with statics, charger, SD cards, etc. We know a digital camera is consists of mutiple function blocks and each of them needs specific care with regards to power requirement. It's very likely that a low dropout voltage regulator is dropped out of regulation under a specific usage pattern (some users chimps more, some don't ... some switching settings more frequently than the others) and this caused the LCD display shut down and the camera stopped working when one specific voltage rail supplies its maximum load.

 

Keep in mind this is only speculation, and the person who told me this has never seen nor touched a M8 ... but if anybody from Leica is watching this thread, they probably should look into this.

[fotografr]

Knowing that the only piece exchanged by Leica was the flash shoe with the Serial Number, I would exclude the top plate, as it wasn't the same. But I suspect that Solms also did a full internal ROM reset on the camera, as to change also the serial number that gets imprinted in the EXIF data of each file. Could you please confirm this, opening an incamera JPG and reading the corresponding EXIF field to see if its SN# matches the one on the flash shoe?

 

Ed

 

Viewing the metadata in Bridge, there is no serial number shown for the camera. It only shows the make and model (Leica M8). This is different than my Canon images, which show the camera serial number on the last line.

 

I'm attaching an image I just shot. If anyone can see a serial number in the exif, please compare it to this: 3102592.

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[d_brown]

Here's one more story to add to the mystery. A year or so ago I upgraded my old cell phone to the latest and greatest. A few days later it died. The store reluctantly replaced it. A few more days and the replacement died. The store wouldn't replace it but I did obtain another from the manufacturer. Soon, the third one died. I went back to the store and got the usual tap dance about how this was a wonderful phone, extremely realiable, and they were having to problems. They again (reluctantly) replaced it with a fourth one which they checked before they handed it to me. Two hours later it was dead. I went back to the store again and they exchanged it for a FIFTH one, which they again checked. I also checked it and it was fine. I left the store, put the phone in my pocket, and while I was driving home realized that all the phones had failed after I had put them in my shirt pocket. I stopped the car, took the phone out of my pocket and it was dead. I have a PACEMAKER embedded in my chest right over the pocket! The owner's manual, of course, warns you of possible interference TO the pacemaker, but says nothing about it's vulnerability to what little emissions might result FROM the pacemaker. I store gave me another brand which I still use. I carry it in my shirt pocket!

 

Your don't have a pacemaker, do you? Just kidding.

 

Good luck!

Dale

[fotografr]

Your don't have a pacemaker, do you? Just kidding.

 

Good luck!

Dale

 

Great story, Dale. May your pacemaker never fail. I, fortunately, don't have one, nor do I have any other such devices implanted. If there were memory implants, I'd probably have one of those.

[atufte]

I think there is the possibility that the charger and/or battery could be at fault here, but I am more inclined to think there is some issue at my end. I don't think it is static, because I've been in too many different situations when the failures occurred. Also, I don't have any apparent static problem in my home.

 

What I keep coming down to is the card reader. Each time I have had a failure, it has been after downloading images and putting the card back in the camera. Does anyone else use a "Promaster Digital" universal card reader?

 

It would be intresting to do a poll on what kind of system people with this "sudden death"

or electronical failures are using, does this happen in the same degree with Mac users as Windows users, it could be some system related thing, i remember some similarities when the first Epson P-2000 was delivered to marked, a lot of them just died a while after downloading pictures from it, and after a some time and research they found some kind of system issue when connecting to a windows XP based system made the electrical circuit in the P-2000 brake down, this did NOT however happen to the Mac users....?

 

Hmmmm, interesting...?!

 

Should we make a POLL on this issue...?

[fuchs]

Viewing the metadata in Bridge, there is no serial number shown for the camera. It only shows the make and model (Leica M8). This is different than my Canon images, which show the camera serial number on the last line.

 

I'm attaching an image I just shot. If anyone can see a serial number in the exif, please compare it to this: 3102592.

Brent,

It looks like the forum system is stripping the pictures from their EXIF data, as I cannot read it after downloading. If you upload to a site as http://www.yousendit.com and post here the link, I will give it another try.

[fuchs]

Viewing the metadata in Bridge, there is no serial number shown for the camera. It only shows the make and model (Leica M8). This is different than my Canon images, which show the camera serial number on the last line.

 

I'm attaching an image I just shot. If anyone can see a serial number in the exif, please compare it to this: 3102592.

Brent,

It looks like the forum system is stripping the pictures from their EXIF data, as I cannot read it after downloading. If you upload to a site as http://www.yousendit.com and post here the link, I will give it another try.

[John Maio]

Is there any data which shows that M8s delivered in the last few weeks have a different failure rate from those delivered 2 - 3 months ago?

 

I'm almost ready to stick my big toe back in the water and acquire an M8 again, and I'm curious about this.

 

Also, many eons ago, back in the days of NiCad batteries, I rigged up a clip-on 12 volt, 50 watt automobile light bulb across the battery to completely discharge it outside the 2-way radio I was using it in. Back then, batteries had "memory", and if I didn't do this, a radio would fail soon after I turned it on. I'm curious as to whether this has been tried.

[fotografr]

Brent,

It looks like the forum system is stripping the pictures from their EXIF data, as I cannot read it after downloading. If you upload to a site as YouSendIt - File Sharing Transfer Delivery - PC FTP Replacement and post here the link, I will give it another try.

 

Ed--I just used yousendit to send you a file using your info@.....email address.

[fotografr]

Is there any data which shows that M8s delivered in the last few weeks have a different failure rate from those delivered 2 - 3 months ago?

 

I'm almost ready to stick my big toe back in the water and acquire an M8 again, and I'm curious about this.

 

Also, many eons ago, back in the days of NiCad batteries, I rigged up a clip-on 12 volt, 50 watt automobile light bulb across the battery to completely discharge it outside the 2-way radio I was using it in. Back then, batteries had "memory", and if I didn't do this, a radio would fail soon after I turned it on. I'm curious as to whether this has been tried.

 

John--I haven't tried that, but here's what I'm thinking of trying tonight. I'm going to get an electrical cord with standard plug attached and strip the ends to expose bare wire. I'll put one wire into the battery chamber and the other one into the slot where the memory card goes, then plug it in and see what happens. I hope that won't void my warranty.

[cbretteville]

I'm attaching an image I just shot. If anyone can see a serial number in the exif, please compare it to this: 3102592.

 

Brent, there is no exif block in the jpeg you posted, sorry. Post one that you just resize in PS and save - don't use "Save for Web" and I'll check it for you

 

- Carl

[John Maio]

John--I haven't tried that, but here's what I'm thinking of trying tonight. I'm going to get an electrical cord with standard plug attached and strip the ends to expose bare wire. I'll put one wire into the battery chamber and the other one into the slot where the memory card goes, then plug it in and see what happens. I hope that won't void my warranty.

 

Well if you held on to the stripped end and plugged it, it would pretty much void YOUR warranty.

 

On the more serious side, I really wonder if this charger/analyzer/conditioner could be made to work...

 

MAHA / POWEREX MH-C777PLUS-II Universal LCD Charger / Analyzer / Conditioner

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[cbretteville]

Brent,

It looks like the forum system is stripping the pictures from their EXIF data, as I cannot read it after downloading.

 

No, the forum software leaves the file alone. But, if it was saved using "Save for web", it will strip off the exif info when the jpeg is created.

[fotografr]

Brent, there is no exif block in the jpeg you posted, sorry. Post one that you just resize in PS and save - don't use "Save for Web" and I'll check it for you

 

- Carl

 

Carl-Here's one just re-sized and saved. Thanks for taking the time.

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