l.ceva Posted March 15, 2007 Share #1  Posted March 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) In gennuary I brought my M8 with a 24 elmarit M because I wanted the most wide angle lens to use with the internal viewfinder.  The first one I get had strange problem: the left part of all picture taken from f2,8 to f4 looks very soft. My first lens was changed in a month and yesterday my new 24 arrived but the surprise was that the new one has the same problem of the old one as you can see in the picture wich shows the left and right extreem region of a photo. The picture is taken with 24 at 2,8 at about 25 30 meters but I experimented also with sobject at various distance with the same results.  Does any 24 user experimented something like this? Any I Idea of what it could be? As this is the second one do you think that is a normal behaviour?  I don't think that this strange behaviour is due to the camaera as i use it with 21 , 35 lux in the same condition with out any problems.  Thankyou for help!  Best regards  Lorenzo  LORENZO CEVA VALLA - fotografia digitale Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/18857-24s-elmarit-very-strange/?do=findComment&comment=201557'>More sharing options...
l.ceva Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share #2  Posted March 15, 2007 And here is a picture taken at about three metrers.  Look the book how different is in the left part of the picture.  best regards  Lorenzo  http://www.lorenzocevavalla.it Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/18857-24s-elmarit-very-strange/?do=findComment&comment=201562'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 15, 2007 Share #3 Â Posted March 15, 2007 Rather impressive... have you the way to make shots to some specific test device to make a precise evaluation of the problem (to say, the precise area affected) ? When they changed your lens, did you receive ANOTHER (different s/n) or THE SAME (same s/n, "repaired" ???) or maybe another but with very close s/n (I can imagine a batch with defective glass somewhere...if so,,,uhm to Leica QC...) ? Have you tried also with the same 24 lens on film Leica ? No reason it is different, if it would be a CCD problem you should suffer it also with the 21, and you say it not so... but in a film Leica, lens takes a larger angle of view, and the problem could result, I imagine, even worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2007 Share #4 Â Posted March 15, 2007 If this happened on just one lens one would suspect a defect of the lens, ranging from a manufacturing fault to a shifted element. If two different lenses exhibit the same behaviour there are but two explanations: Either a warped lens mount (It happens, a R7 of mine had that after a fall -twice) of a misaligned sensor.But then it would do this on all lenses. Â So either somebody screwed up and returned you the defective lens or there is something wrong in the production line that has not been picked up by QC. The latter is next to impossible if one sees the checking procedures for lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
de dirk Posted March 15, 2007 Share #5 Â Posted March 15, 2007 i am using a new 24 elmarit on the m8 as well and i did not notice anything of the like. can you show the degradation in one photo? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eronald Posted March 15, 2007 Share #6  Posted March 15, 2007 If this happened on just one lens one would suspect a defect of the lens, ranging from a manufacturing fault to a shifted element. If two different lenses exhibit the same behaviour there are but two explanations: Either a warped lens mount (It happens, a R7 of mine had that after a fall -twice) of a misaligned sensor.But then it would do this on all lenses. So either somebody screwed up and returned you the defective lens or there is something wrong in the production line that has not been picked up by QC. The latter is next to impossible if one sees the checking procedures for lenses.  Sensor misalignment in the body ?  Edmund Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2007 Share #7  Posted March 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sensor misalignment in the body ? Edmund  It has been known to happen although it would be the first reported case on an M8, but that would affect all lenses. His 35 and 21 are fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.ceva Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share #8  Posted March 15, 2007 Thankyou for your intervention!  I give some answer:  1) Thew new lens is only about 90 serial number different from the one I had before 2) I made the same tests with my other lens and I did non see something like this even with 35 lux wide open and 21 eide open. 3) I don't have specific test device but only normal pictures! 4) When I returned the first one after some days Leica told me the lens is OK but after looking my pictures the decided to change it. 5) I hope that LEICA is a serious and I hope they did not just change the serial number to my lens!  6) Important! with the old one i made tests with another m8 and had same results  If it was a sensor misalignment in the body I would have seen the problems on every lens?  Could some one make a picture with 24 wide open to a plan subject like a brik wall and post here the crops right and left?  thankyou all  Lorenzo  http://www.lorenzocevavalla.it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted March 15, 2007 I have a 24 but no brick walls I fear. But I can assure you that there is no way that it produces uneven sharpness. In fact it is one of the best lenses in this focal length, if not the best, also for flatness of the plane of sharpness and edge and corner performance. Â Excuse me for asking and I feel a bit silly doing so: but you did have the sensor parallel to the building I assume....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.ceva Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share #10  Posted March 15, 2007 I have a 24 but no brick walls I fear. But I can assure you that there is no way that it produces uneven sharpness. In fact it is one of the best lenses in this focal length, if not the best, also for flatness of the plane of sharpness and edge and corner performance. Excuse me for asking and I feel a bit silly doing so: but you did have the sensor parallel to the building I assume....?   You do not need exuse your self! When i took this picture i tried to be the more parallel as i could but anyway at a distance of 20 25 meter it schould not be so important if You ar not exactely parallel to the building. I laso tried do shift a bit to the right and to left but In all my pictures taken wide open at every distance always the left part is defective.  If I stop down the lens to f 5,6 than the redition is perfect.  I really don't know what to think!  Ciao  Lorenzo  http://www.lorenzocevavalla.it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted March 15, 2007 I would mail these photo's with a strong letter of complaint to the e-mail adress I will PM you. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 15, 2007 Share #12 Â Posted March 15, 2007 This is most strange. You should however make a controlled test. Try to find either a brick wall or any other building with lots of fine, repeated detail, that will fill your 24 mm frame at a distance of at a minimum 24 m, so that you can focus at infinity. Put the camera on a sturdy tripod and ensure correct alignment, i.e. sensor parallel with the wall, camera carefully levelled. Take a series of shots at full aperture, 4, and 5.6. Â Once many years ago I bought a 35/2.0 for an SLR camera of good repute. It was impossible to focus it. By the brick wall test, I found that if the lens was focused visually on center, at normal taking distances, the edges and corners were beyond infinity! That was the worst case of curvature of field I ever saw, but the phenomenon was at least symmetrical. It may actually have ben a case of a forgotten element. -- Whoever assembled that lens must have had too much sake, but it goes without saying that the manufacturer replaced the lens without any questions. I still have it. Â In other words, we can all have a bad day ... it happens in the best families. Â The old man from the Age of Broken Bottle Optics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.ceva Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share #13  Posted March 15, 2007 Thankyou for your suggestion,  When I have a bit of time I will try but I don't think this will change the fact as the left part of all my picuters taken wide open is always affected in the same way.  If it was that the problem appear some times on the left and some times on the right than I could have some doubts but it is always always on the left!  ciao  Lorenzo  http://www.lorenzocevavalla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.ceva Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share #14  Posted March 15, 2007 I just made a new test.  I put my M8 on a solid tripod and took 3 pictures.  In The first one I kept the part I want to test in the middle In the the second and in the third picture with out moving the focus I turned the camera on the right so the part was on the left of the picture and then I turned the camera on the left so the part was on the right of the picture.  As you can see the problem is still there, this just to see that in this case the perfect allignement of the camera at such a distnace does not make any difference.  Nothing like this happens with 21 or 35!  best regards  Lorenzo  http://www.lorenzocevavalla.it Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/18857-24s-elmarit-very-strange/?do=findComment&comment=201719'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2007 Share #15  Posted March 15, 2007 Lorenzo,as I said, mail this stuff to Leica with a full story, return the lens and ask them for a lens that performs as it should. You are the customer that paid the money. You should not have to deal with this yourself. Knowing Leica, they will certainly solve this. Who knows, you might even get your free little tin of "Leica Gummibärchen" (for the uninitiated, a German version of Jellybeans). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.ceva Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share #16  Posted March 15, 2007 Lorenzo,as I said, mail this stuff to Leica with a full story, return the lens and ask them for a lens that performs as it should. You are the customer that paid the money. You should not have to deal with this yourself. Knowing Leica, they will certainly solve this. Who knows, you might even get your free little tin of "Leica Gummibärchen" (for the uninitiated, a German version of Jellybeans).   This is what I just did!  Let's see the developement of the affaire!  And her is the same test done with the 21 wide open.  ciao  Lorenzo  LORENZO CEVA VALLA - fotografia digitale Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/18857-24s-elmarit-very-strange/?do=findComment&comment=201784'>More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 15, 2007 Share #17  Posted March 15, 2007 This is what I just did! Let's see the developement of the affaire!  And her is the same test done with the 21 wide open.  ciao  Lorenzo   If the left part of the image above is the left side of the sensor I see something similar in this image also. The left is not as sharp as the right. Please post a complete/full image. Not these crops. I suspect you have a sensor problem that shows up more with the 24 then other lenses. Could be you just need to clean the sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 15, 2007 Share #18 Â Posted March 15, 2007 ... well, the pict with the 21 seem to me equal sharp... maybe I am not so accustomed to look at jpegs. Â Anyway, You Lorenzo said an important thing : CLOSING beyond 5,6 the "soft" effect DISAPPEARS, right ? I would say, definitely, a lens defect, and 90 s/n difference between "old" and "new" is a small number... I do not pretend to know Leica factory attitudes towards product schedules planning, but suspect the same batch, or at least the same batch of lens units... defective. Be quiet, they shall give you a correct one: post strong documents (pictures...) and wait. (about one of your points: surely, they do not "re-engrave" the number...an illogical cost, anyway) Really cannot you do a test on film ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 15, 2007 Share #19 Â Posted March 15, 2007 I don't own a 24, but have recently used one. I can assure you that it was razor-sharp from corner to corner. This is not normal. I would suggest that you visit your dealer, verify the problem, and try once more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.ceva Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share #20  Posted March 15, 2007 I suspect you have a sensor problem that shows up more with the 24 then other lenses. Could be you just need to clean the sensor.   This coul be possible on one camera but not probable as the problem happens on two different cameras!  I returned the lens to the delear we will see what happens!  Lorenzo  http://www.lorenzocevavalla.it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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