Guest Kasper Posted September 25, 2012 Share #141 Posted September 25, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Paulus, I don’t like it if someone don’t trust me. What do yoy think, that I started all this just for fun? I’m a busy man, you know? As for the challenge: know what you are doing. I bought my second lens in a shop, specialised in Leica. ( 28 mm summicron). Told him what the discussion is here. There is no way a Leica can focus that way as quickly, etcetera., said the man. But allright, give me some suggestions for a date, so I can see i fit is possible. Once again: be ure. The thing will be bigger than you think. Conditions for the pictures as I descriped. Regards, Kasper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Hi Guest Kasper, Take a look here Leica's advantage?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
brianv Posted September 25, 2012 Share #142 Posted September 25, 2012 Well Kasper, you aren't alone in not being able to figure out how to use a manual focus camera. That's why AF came out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 25, 2012 Share #143 Posted September 25, 2012 I offered to accept Kaspers challenge, I also invited him to join the forum meeting in Copenhagen and we could set up a 'shoot off' for him. But no response, I wonder why? Please gentlemen, can I suggest that we desist from feeding any more to this troll? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 25, 2012 Share #144 Posted September 25, 2012 I offered to accept Kaspers challenge, I also invited him to join the forum meeting in Copenhagen and we could set up a 'shoot off' for him. But no response, I wonder why? Please gentlemen, can I suggest that we desist from feeding any more to this troll? I already said " Goodbye " to him. We can go on with this thread without him if we want, but for me the fun is over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted September 25, 2012 Share #145 Posted September 25, 2012 I already said " Goodbye " to him. We can go on with this thread without him if we want, but for me the fun is over. So, I did a shoot out, of each other, with a photographer friend at Photokina... my M9-P v him with the Leica M in live-view and focus peaking. I focussed and recomposed for each shot in the rangefinder until he got his first shot in the EVF. Result: M9-P - 7 shots sharp (3 upright, 4 horizontal) Leica M - 1 shot back focussed. OK it's a prototype and we don't have focus peaking experience, or auto focus, but it raised his eyebrows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kasper Posted September 25, 2012 Share #146 Posted September 25, 2012 I offered to accept Kaspers challenge, I also invited him to join the forum meeting in Copenhagen and we could set up a 'shoot off' for him. But no response, I wonder why? Please gentlemen, can I suggest that we desist from feeding any more to this troll? Because I'm not going to Kopenhagen for a thing like this. There are members who live more nearby. Simple reason, is it not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kasper Posted September 25, 2012 Share #147 Posted September 25, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I already said " Goodbye " to him. We can go on with this thread without him if we want, but for me the fun is over. I siad: give me some dates, and I see what I can do. I also wrote: be sure. In the conditions that I described you certainly will lose. Like everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted September 25, 2012 Share #148 Posted September 25, 2012 So, I did a shoot out, of each other, with a photographer friend at Photokina... my M9-P v him with the Leica M in live-view and focus peaking. I focussed and recomposed for each shot in the rangefinder until he got his first shot in the EVF. Result: M9-P - 7 shots sharp (3 upright, 4 horizontal) Leica M - 1 shot back focussed. OK it's a prototype and we don't have focus peaking experience, or auto focus, but it raised his eyebrows. Nonsense. To judge a prototype RF on focusproblems, pfff... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted September 25, 2012 Share #149 Posted September 25, 2012 So, I did a shoot out, of each other, with a photographer friend at Photokina... my M9-P v him with the Leica M in live-view and focus peaking. I focussed and recomposed for each shot in the rangefinder until he got his first shot in the EVF. Result: M9-P - 7 shots sharp (3 upright, 4 horizontal) Leica M - 1 shot back focussed. OK it's a prototype and we don't have focus peaking experience, or auto focus, but it raised his eyebrows. Yes it is not easy to beat the optical rangefinder in experienced hands. Most likely the focus "peaking" can best be used only when the optical rangefinder can not be used. That means that for most cases you can just use the M like any other M. Also like you said Bybrett, we should give both the prototype and the photographer some time before we actually rely on counts of in focus shots. Thanks anyway for reporting this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted September 25, 2012 Share #150 Posted September 25, 2012 can anybody lock the thread? plz Kasper is definitely one oject worth to explore in psychology science. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted September 25, 2012 Share #151 Posted September 25, 2012 Yes it is not easy to beat the optical rangefinder in experienced hands. Most likely the focus "peaking" can best be used only when the optical rangefinder can not be used. That means that for most cases you can just use the M like any other M. Also like you said Bybrett, we should give both the prototype and the photographer some time before we actually rely on counts of in focus shots. Thanks anyway for reporting this! Thanks, it showed me that some skill is required to use focus peaking and secondly that it is not accurate enough yet. In a non-scientific way, I now know how much better the focus peaking has to be in order to have any chance of competing. We are told that the M is a prototype but this camera has several years' development behind it and due for release in 3 months... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted September 25, 2012 Share #152 Posted September 25, 2012 Serial production, seems to me, is something different then prototype construction. It would have been more informative I presume when your friend had made two pictures each time for every unique object: live view and RF. On tripod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted September 25, 2012 Share #153 Posted September 25, 2012 Thanks, it showed me that some skill is required to use focus peaking and secondly that it is not accurate enough yet. In a non-scientific way, I now know how much better the focus peaking has to be in order to have any chance of competing. We are told that the M is a prototype but this camera has several years' development behind it and due for release in 3 months... I'll agree with the skill component whole heartedly Brett, but not the accuracy comment. After using my NEX7 for several months I can focus my 90mm Summarit and 50mm 1.5 just as accurately as I can on the M9. Certainly it's a different experience but with some practice speed and accuracy are equivalent. And as with the rangefinder focus peaking is occasionally difficult to use. I can't speak for others but that's my experience. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted September 25, 2012 Share #154 Posted September 25, 2012 Serial production, seems to me, is something different then prototype construction.It would have been more informative I presume when your friend had made two pictures each time for every unique object: live view and RF. On tripod It was very informative to us as we don't use tripods. BTW the cameras at Photokina were from a build of 100 units already completed. FW will change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted September 25, 2012 Share #155 Posted September 25, 2012 Interesting though... Btw many M8's and M9's were backfocusing in the beginning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted September 25, 2012 Share #156 Posted September 25, 2012 I'll agree with the skill component whole heartedly Brett, but not the accuracy comment. After using my NEX7 for several months I can focus my 90mm Summarit and 50mm 1.5 just as accurately as I can on the M9. Certainly it's a different experience but with some practice speed and accuracy are equivalent. And as with the rangefinder focus peaking is occasionally difficult to use. I can't speak for others but that's my experience. Gordon Well it's just that we found that the focus peaking didn't snap in and out on the screen. So there was a significant rotation of the lens ring in which the camera was still telling us that it was in focus. That's why it took so long to get one shot. All correctable in FW no doubt... a la M9. For now I'll put it down to lack of experience. The sensor quality will be more important for me to make a decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xddsixers Posted October 3, 2012 Share #157 Posted October 3, 2012 I can't really illustrate Leica's advantage verbally. But I switched from D700 with 3 lens (20 2.8, 50 1.4 and 80-200 2.8) to a M6 and summicron 50mm. I just finished my first two roll and love my Leica. You can see it for yourself. Leica 20121001_First Roll in Bushwick - a set on Flickr Nikon 20120409_Morocco - a set on Flickr 20120406_Barcelona_Madrid - a set on Flickr A few facts: -Carrying my DSLR set alone with my backpack during a 2 weeks trip is not fun, I don't shot for a living and if it isn't fun, I don't see why I would be doing it. -Yes, the leica lacks high iso. But less than one out of 20 images I am happy with requires iso over 800, so I don't find myself missing anything -with DSLR I end up with a ton of so so pictures, with Leica more than half of my pic is memorial (this might have to do with I actually have to manual focus, and I am using film so it isn't free etc) but you end up with less but better picture Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted October 3, 2012 Share #158 Posted October 3, 2012 I can't really illustrate Leica's advantage verbally. But I switched from D700 with 3 lens (20 2.8, 50 1.4 and 80-200 2.8) to a M6 and summicron 50mm. I just finished my first two roll and love my Leica. You can see it for yourself. Leica 20121001_First Roll in Bushwick - a set on Flickr Nikon 20120409_Morocco - a set on Flickr 20120406_Barcelona_Madrid - a set on Flickr A few facts: -Carrying my DSLR set alone with my backpack during a 2 weeks trip is not fun, I don't shot for a living and if it isn't fun, I don't see why I would be doing it. -Yes, the leica lacks high iso. But less than one out of 20 images I am happy with requires iso over 800, so I don't find myself missing anything -with DSLR I end up with a ton of so so pictures, with Leica more than half of my pic is memorial (this might have to do with I actually have to manual focus, and I am using film so it isn't free etc) but you end up with less but better picture Convincing for me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted October 3, 2012 Share #159 Posted October 3, 2012 -with DSLR I end up with a ton of so so pictures, with Leica more than half of my pic is memorial (this might have to do with I actually have to manual focus, and I am using film so it isn't free etc) but you end up with less but better picture When Nikon introduced the F6 in 2004 (and which is still being produced and sold), they were asked why build a new film camera in 2004 when digital is where the industry was now focused. The F6 project manager, Tomohisa Ikeno, said: "However much digital cameras have penetrated the market, there are people who continue to use film-based cameras. We know that this group includes photographers who are inclined to try more creative approaches. After considering these facts, we again thought about the attractions of film-based SLR cameras. Now, I think the essence of this appeal can be summed up as "the value of unique pictures." To explain, allow me to exaggerate a bit. With a digital camera, the number of pictures you can take is infinite, in the sense that there is no limit in the number of shots to take, unlike shooting with film. You don't have to hesitate when taking pictures. Just release the shutter, although later, you may find that you don't want to keep the results. Some photographers reject the prospect of such ease, as they desire a more careful, rigorous approach to taking pictures. They want to treasure each picture-taking opportunity by etching their vision on film. So, with the F6, we made it our first priority to satisfy customers who want to apply a certain degree of respect to taking each great picture. To realize this, a camera that allows a user to take a good picture is not enough. There are many important factors involved, including comfort of use, functionality as a tool, shooting feel, etc." I think the last two sentences are pretty much to the point here. The fact remains that there are "many important factors involved" which include primarily subjective issues based on the user's needs and desires (whether it's a film camera or digital camera.) And I believe everyone understands this quite well already. But threads like this ("Leica's Advantage?") keep appearing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torbotek Posted October 4, 2012 Share #160 Posted October 4, 2012 I can't really illustrate Leica's advantage verbally. But I switched from D700 with 3 lens (20 2.8, 50 1.4 and 80-200 2.8) to a M6 and summicron 50mm. I just finished my first two roll and love my Leica. You can see it for yourself. Leica 20121001_First Roll in Bushwick - a set on Flickr Nikon 20120409_Morocco - a set on Flickr 20120406_Barcelona_Madrid - a set on Flickr A few facts: -Carrying my DSLR set alone with my backpack during a 2 weeks trip is not fun, I don't shot for a living and if it isn't fun, I don't see why I would be doing it. -Yes, the leica lacks high iso. But less than one out of 20 images I am happy with requires iso over 800, so I don't find myself missing anything -with DSLR I end up with a ton of so so pictures, with Leica more than half of my pic is memorial (this might have to do with I actually have to manual focus, and I am using film so it isn't free etc) but you end up with less but better picture awesome!!! What type of the 50mm summicron do you own? For the Trix, do you develop them yourself? Awesome photos! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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