philipus Posted September 21, 2012 Share #301 Posted September 21, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) The shutter of the M-E is identical to the M9 Is this really the case, or do you perhaps mean just the actual shutter? The description in the M and M-E brochure seems to suggest the shutter tensioning mechanism has been changed (a welcome change imho) (p. 29): the shutter action of the Leica m-e is extremely quiet. a sophisticated, almost noiseless motor/gear-train system tensions the shutter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 Hi philipus, Take a look here Leica M and M-E. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted September 21, 2012 Share #302 Posted September 21, 2012 Sorry, I do not understand that. What makes in your eyes the RD-1 "more" or "truer" digital than - say - the M8?... Jamriman did not say that the R-D1 is more or truer digital but that it is the "truest digital M". I guess he referred to the manual cocking lever, the lack of motor noise, the reversible LCD and the top plate controls allowing to use the R-D1 as if it were a film M. No need to tether it in case of dead LCD, which is not the case of the M8 unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 21, 2012 Share #303 Posted September 21, 2012 Is this really the case, or do you perhaps mean just the actual shutter? The description in the M and M-E brochure seems to suggest the shutter tensioning mechanism has been changed (a welcome change imho) (p. 29): The new M shutter is a completely new unit. The M-E is just a cut-down M9. I have just downloaded the brochure, and they are definitely talking about the M9 shutter. The NEW shutter required a root and branch redesign of the M's internals and wouldn't go into an M9 body. It is the redesigned shutter that is partly rtesponsible for the availability of the double-height battery in the new M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted September 22, 2012 Share #304 Posted September 22, 2012 Well, after reading most of this thread I want to thank everyone for posting. It has been interesting to hear various opinions. For myself, I am going to stick with my m9p. Why? I have a dslr and I have never once used live view or video. I have a point and shoot camera for birthdays, video and quick fun shots. I am forced to use live view on my waterproof Pentax optio, but I can go directly into the ocean and shoot into the waves curl. I am not interested in an M camera with live view, nor am I interested in an EVF as I would never use either. I like that the new M has enhanced ISO although I can use the m9p to 1600 in color, and 2000 in BW. Good enough for me. The new LED frame lines sound good, but really the frame lines are just illuminated by an LED instead of the bright line window on the m9p. So the frame lines are really no big deal on the new M. And after all, the farther you are from the subject, the more you get in the image regardless of the frame lines. Before my m9p I had an m8, also a great camera except I did not like to have to use the annoying filter. Bottom line: It's the GLASS that matters most. Also, I looked at the new M images on Leica's website. This was the best Leica could muster up and to me they all looked flat, soft, washed out, and nothing like the quality of the m9p. I did not see anything near a "Leica Glow" and again I am assuming that Leica put their best foot forward when choosing to display the images of the new M. Also the new M uses an LCD protector out of the same material as an iPhone. The hard crystal screen on the m9p is far superior and I am surprised Leica did not throw that in. The new size and resolution of the M screen doesn't do anything for me either as I only, and briefly check the LCD for exposure. Sometimes I don't even check it at all. Just my thoughts and again I have enjoyed this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundestrainer Posted September 22, 2012 Share #305 Posted September 22, 2012 Well, after reading most of this thread I want to thank everyone for posting. It has been interesting to hear various opinions. For myself, I am going to stick with my m9p. Why? I have a dslr and I have never once used live view or video. I have a point and shoot camera for birthdays, video and quick fun shots. I am forced to use live view on my waterproof Pentax optio, but I can go directly into the ocean and shoot into the waves curl. I am not interested in an M camera with live view, nor am I interested in an EVF as I would never use either. I like that the new M has enhanced ISO although I can use the m9p to 1600 in color, and 2000 in BW. Good enough for me. The new LED frame lines sound good, but really the frame lines are just illuminated by an LED instead of the bright line window on the m9p. So the frame lines are really no big deal on the new M. And after all, the farther you are from the subject, the more you get in the image regardless of the frame lines. Before my m9p I had an m8, also a great camera except I did not like to have to use the annoying filter. Bottom line: It's the GLASS that matters most. Also, I looked at the new M images on Leica's website. This was the best Leica could muster up and to me they all looked flat, soft, washed out, and nothing like the quality of the m9p. I did not see anything near a "Leica Glow" and again I am assuming that Leica put their best foot forward when choosing to display the images of the new M. Also the new M uses an LCD protector out of the same material as an iPhone. The hard crystal screen on the m9p is far superior and I am surprised Leica did not throw that in. The new size and resolution of the M screen doesn't do anything for me either as I only, and briefly check the LCD for exposure. Sometimes I don't even check it at all. Just my thoughts and again I have enjoyed this thread. Great summary. I almost completely agree and also keep my M9. The only thing that might not be true is the image quality of the M shown on the Leica website. Photos shown there are often not good and the true image quality is often much, much better. I don't know why Leica almost always shows rather poor sample pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted September 22, 2012 Share #306 Posted September 22, 2012 Why Leica used a d-pad for the M camera and a joystick for the S? The joystick seems to be a much better solution (smaller). Why there are no consistence among products? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted September 22, 2012 Share #307 Posted September 22, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is the black paint finish of the new M more durable than that of the M9 or is it the same? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted September 22, 2012 Share #308 Posted September 22, 2012 Some of you have been smoking crack. So you can make inferences on the image quality of the new M based on those godawful shots on the Leica site? I don't think so. The light is dull and they have no other redeeming qualities to them (and they are small unless I have missed some larger files). Only when in the hands of testers, or with an assortment of raw files available for download, will be have a scooby doo about the image quality of this camera. To conclude that the image quality is 'nothing like my M9-P' based on those little images is just absurd! ... and what kind of Leica glow do you expect to find from the modern asph line up of Leica lenses. None of them have any kind of glow whatsoever. That was corrected the out of Leica lenses decades ago. So am I to assume that there is going to be a crop of people determined to slam the new M on the basis that the M9 and its CCD was the last of the 'real digital Leica'. Ah, yes, that six year heritage in which the timeless qualities of the digital M were etched in stone, to be revered for generations to come... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamriman Posted September 22, 2012 Share #309 Posted September 22, 2012 Sorry, I do not understand that. What makes in your eyes the RD-1 "more" or "truer" digital than - say - the M8? Both are lovely cameras and I sold both for my shortcomings in using them. I now own another camera which is not more or less "truly" digital than either. Its the simple cock shutter lever that I love. I don't think there's another digital camera that was ever made with one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted September 22, 2012 Share #310 Posted September 22, 2012 Some of you have been smoking crack. So you can make inferences on the image quality of the new M based on those godawful shots on the Leica site? I don't think so. The light is dull and they have no other redeeming qualities to them (and they are small unless I have missed some larger files). Only when in the hands of testers, or with an assortment of raw files available for download, will be have a scooby doo about the image quality of this camera. To conclude that the image quality is 'nothing like my M9-P' based on those little images is just absurd! ... and what kind of Leica glow do you expect to find from the modern asph line up of Leica lenses. None of them have any kind of glow whatsoever. That was corrected the out of Leica lenses decades ago. So am I to assume that there is going to be a crop of people determined to slam the new M on the basis that the M9 and its CCD was the last of the 'real digital Leica'. Ah, yes, that six year heritage in which the timeless qualities of the digital M were etched in stone, to be revered for generations to come... Hi batmobile, My inferences to the IQ of the images on the Leica site was an observation, not an indictment. After all, Leica did post these to show us what they wanted us to see. I have absolutely no idea how the IQ will compare to the m9p, but I do know that a cmos sensor is known to be not quite as sharp. It may be a level of sharpness that really doesn’t matter for all I know. I think that the term “Leica Glow”, tho’ removed from lenses long ago, is a term that Leica shooters use to describe the fantastic ‘something special’ about the camera and the glass. My intention was not to degrade the new M. How could I possibly do that without more information? So I could only comment on what I do know, and the features that I would use, or not use. And the ones’ I care about or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamriman Posted September 22, 2012 Share #311 Posted September 22, 2012 So as I understand the R adapter is only useful with live view. Another words it wouldn't really serve any purpose on an M9? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbl Posted September 22, 2012 Share #312 Posted September 22, 2012 Well, after reading most of this thread I want to thank everyone for posting. It has been interesting to hear various opinions. For myself, I am going to stick with my m9p. Why? I have a dslr and I have never once used live view or video. I have a point and shoot camera for birthdays, video and quick fun shots. I am forced to use live view on my waterproof Pentax optio, but I can go directly into the ocean and shoot into the waves curl. I am not interested in an M camera with live view, nor am I interested in an EVF as I would never use either. I like that the new M has enhanced ISO although I can use the m9p to 1600 in color, and 2000 in BW. Good enough for me. The new LED frame lines sound good, but really the frame lines are just illuminated by an LED instead of the bright line window on the m9p. So the frame lines are really no big deal on the new M.. I'm tending to agree with you. I'm still on the film M side, but have been considering a jump to digital. Now I'm not so sure what to do. The M9-P is looking more and more attractive to me (I can't stand the color on the M-E), but buying a previous-generation digital camera feels weird. I may get an MM and the fact that it uses different batteries than the new M doesn't sound fun. Anyone else thinking along these lines? -jbl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamriman Posted September 22, 2012 Share #313 Posted September 22, 2012 I have an M9-P and increasingly becoming happier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 22, 2012 Share #314 Posted September 22, 2012 So as I understand the R adapter is only useful with live view. Another words it wouldn't really serve any purpose on an M9? Thanks. I don't see why it would not but you'd need to use an optical accessory finder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted September 22, 2012 Share #315 Posted September 22, 2012 I don't see why it would not but you'd need to use an optical accessory finder. But how would you focus an R lens on an M body? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 22, 2012 Share #316 Posted September 22, 2012 So as I understand the R adapter is only useful with live view. Another words it wouldn't really serve any purpose on an M9? Thanks. Correct, unless you use an accessory finder and guess focus. ... I have absolutely no idea how the IQ will compare to the m9p, but I do know that a cmos sensor is known to be not quite as sharp. This is a newly-designed sensor without the AA filter that is ordinarily included with DSLR CMOS sensors. Best to wait for production samples and optimized firmware and software to evaluate image quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 22, 2012 Share #317 Posted September 22, 2012 But how would you focus an R lens on an M body? The same way as one does with other lenses not coupled to the rangefinder i.e. by zone focussing, by guesstimating or by calculating the subject distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 22, 2012 Share #318 Posted September 22, 2012 So as I understand the R adapter is only useful with live view. Another words it wouldn't really serve any purpose on an M9? That’s correct. For one thing there would be no way of controlling focus; also the microlens shifting of the M9 sensor is optimised for M but not R lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 22, 2012 Share #319 Posted September 22, 2012 I do know that a cmos sensor is known to be not quite as sharp. There is no difference in sharpness between a CCD and a CMOS sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertekijker Posted September 23, 2012 Share #320 Posted September 23, 2012 I tried to find out what the 'E' in 'M-E' stands for. I saw the camera referred to as an 'Entry-level' camera, and on the Leica website I saw the camera described as the 'Essence' of a Leica. Just wondering. ---------------- Frans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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