andyedward Posted September 15, 2012 Share #1 Posted September 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Lloyds rather frank account can be found at: diglloyd - Blog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 15, 2012 Posted September 15, 2012 Hi andyedward, Take a look here Monochrom initial impression by Lloyd Chambers . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
leicashot Posted September 15, 2012 Share #2 Posted September 15, 2012 Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. What did he expect? The specs came out ages ago. He knew what he was getting before testing it. He raises some good points but his use of vulgar language has cost him any respect I had for him as a professional. He sounds like a grumpy old man who's upset because he couldn't get test units in fast enough because manufacturers don't show him love. I won't be renewing any further subscriptions.......following on, I thought I'd email my thoughts to Lloyd and see if he values the opinion of a subscriber...... EMAIL TRANSCRIPT. ME: Lloyd I'm writing because I'm disappointed inn your latest post on your blog. The use of such language in the way you used it is very unprofessional and somewhat offensive. LLOYD: Thank you. ME: I'm not sure of your reason for taking this approach but you come off sounding like a very angry person. LLOYD: I think you have completely missed the jesting in the post. There is no anger in it whatsoever. ME: You have some valid points but your delivery makes you sound like an entertainment paparazzi journalist working for TMZ bagging on a celebrity because they ate the wrong food. I really hope this is not a direction you will continue in because as a paying subscriber, this is not what I paid for. LLOYD: You do not pay for the blog Kristian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photomeme Posted September 15, 2012 Share #3 Posted September 15, 2012 Lloyds rather frank account can be found at: diglloyd - Blog On the only subject genuinely in question, for which a leica savvy reviewer would need to rent the camera, he writes: "wonderful sensor. Gorgeous silken grayscale". The rest is tripe. He didn't need to rent the camera to know about the LCD or 'difficulty' (LOL) focusing a rangefinder, did he? In jest? About the mainstream products, fine. But about a limited release niche product? I rate his style "three turds". By the way, any truth to the 1000 manufactured number? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted September 15, 2012 Share #4 Posted September 15, 2012 On the only subject genuinely in question, for which a leica savvy reviewer would need to rent the camera, he writes: "wonderful sensor. Gorgeous silken grayscale". The rest is tripe. He didn't need to rent the camera to know about the LCD or 'difficulty' (LOL) focusing a rangefinder, did he? In jest? About the mainstream products, fine. But about a limited release niche product? I rate his style "three turds". By the way, any truth to the 1000 manufactured number? He's saying it's all in jest now, after the fact to defend his position. My interpretation is that there is underlying anger, disappointment and maybe envy there, driving such language.....he's even added a clause at the top, warning people of the 'humour' that supposedly follows. His response says it all. He really doesn't care what his subscribers think, because he doesn't directly relate the blog to the paid section. Sad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 15, 2012 Share #5 Posted September 15, 2012 So he tried to use an SDHX card and lacks some basic knowledge about filtering. Very professional..... Apparently he is unaware that using a deep red filter will bring out a bit of IR and near-IR on a digital camera causing misfocus on quite a few lenses, and has forgotten to read this forum. There were speculations in a number of threads that using a red filter would not be a good idea, given the spectral response of the sensor. Yellow, or at most orange is a better starting point. But it would be nice to have a decently resolving zoom function on the LCD, I give him that. I've been complaining for three years now. Ah - a limited edition of 1000. Last week the number in this particular rumor was 500. Leica never said anything about a limited edition. besides, we all know what limited edition Leicas cost. It may well be that they have an initial run of 500 or 1000. The initial production batch of the M8 was 1500 and the M9 saw a similar first build-up of production. After that there is a pause until they get the pipeline flowing. It always works this way with Leica. In this case there is a Photokina with products that must be produced as well. It must be a madhouse in Solms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likalar Posted September 15, 2012 Share #6 Posted September 15, 2012 He could be issued a WUI (Written under the influence). Kind of sad, and I hope he'll do a re-write to gain credibility again. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted September 15, 2012 Share #7 Posted September 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) He could be issued a WUI (Written under the influence). Kind of sad, and I hope he'll do a re-write to gain credibility again. Larry Been back and forth on the email with this guy and he doesn't care at all. Personally I don't feel offended or anything, but it was disappointing to see him stoop so low, especially when I've been a paying customer and supporter, sending him many referrals since the beginning. Simply put, he can say and do whatever he wants, so i'll refrain from giving this ridiculous topic any further attention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 15, 2012 Share #8 Posted September 15, 2012 Well, it certainly won't encourage anybody to drop any money on his "Leica Guide". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 15, 2012 Share #9 Posted September 15, 2012 Lloyds rather frank account can be found at: diglloyd - Blog obviously, the language is bad and absolutely unnecessary but what he says is certainly correct. interesting reactions of leica fans here...against a heretic. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 15, 2012 Share #10 Posted September 15, 2012 Not a heretic. But if you set up as an expert it presupposes that you study a product before you review it, at least to the extent of reading the manual, and that you are aware of the way filters work and other basics. It is a bit tiring if any criticism of negative writings about Leica gets dismissed as blind fandom, no matter if it is actually valid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted September 15, 2012 Share #11 Posted September 15, 2012 obviously, the language is bad and absolutely unnecessary but what he says is certainly correct. interesting reactions of leica fans here...against a heretic. peter I think his language is a choice, and will appeal greatly to a different demographic than the, ahem, typical Leica user on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted September 15, 2012 Share #12 Posted September 15, 2012 LLoyd's language was used like punctuations to make a point that no-one seems to hear when delivered using polite language. I thought it was a hoot. Yet, it is a blog that could save a lot of money for a lot of people. I already have a Leica M digital camera with an insulting LCD, and won't buy another one. Rather than swearing at them, I will simply not buy from them. I'll just struggle along with the M9P as the only FF path to the lenses until they stop insulting my intelligence ... or someone like Sony makes a FF alternative for the M lenses that I like. His point about the D800 was revealing ... nice to see someone buck the drone like hoopla about this camera by assigning it to the turd pile for good reason ... and I was delighted with the "Greedy" point regarding the Canon 5D-III, which was the first thought that came to my mind when I saw the price tag, including the expletive-delieatives. These companies are herding us like cattle with a brain implants from Lemmings. Nice to see one of the cows lift its head and say something regardless of how crude it may be : -) -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyedward Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted September 15, 2012 Its a refreshing change to read SOME fair criticism of a company's product instead of the sycophantic toadyism we usually hear from apologists of all brands, including leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trond Posted September 15, 2012 Share #14 Posted September 15, 2012 I agree, there should be room for criticism on any camera, nothing is perfect. Not even a Leica, though most of the lenses come pretty close to being "perfect". I love my M-cameras and lenses, they are great pieces of craftsmanship, but not perfect. I thought the comment Lloyd´s blog front page was quite funny, and well stated, though the language was quite "colorful". If people take the time to actually read what Lloyd says in his review in progress of the Leica M M, you will find that he speaks very favorably of the M M sensor. He even set the M M to the equal of the Nikon D800 in terms of dynamic range. Best regards Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted September 15, 2012 Share #15 Posted September 15, 2012 I'm all for constructive comment and useful criticism. Fuck I even enjoy the shock of crude language, if there's a point to the shock value. I thought the blog was pointless and dull. Not net contribution to any discussion. Sorry. Boring. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted September 15, 2012 Share #16 Posted September 15, 2012 I kind of miss life before the interwebs. You studied art and photography by going to the library and to the museums. You went down to the local camera store and picked out a camera that felt good in your hands and would do the job for you, whether it was a Leica, an Alpa, or a Nikon, or a Canon. You were relatively oblivious about the details of the equipment and simply used your chosen tools to make images. And you concentrated on why you were making images in the first place and what it really meant to be making images. These days, when I'm off of the internet, it often feels like I'm taking a peaceful and contemplative walk into a quiet forest... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted September 15, 2012 Share #17 Posted September 15, 2012 Not being someone who wants to paste electrical tape over the LCD on a digital Leica-M, it's obvious that one on the M9 and M-Monochrom is nowhere near the class of the ones on other good (and bad) digital cameras these days, and I would prefer a better one; but all I need is to be able to see the histogram, which poses no issue. I wouldn't in any case be checking the focus with the LCD. All that aside, Lloyd Chambers, whom I've never read before, comes across as a twit, despite his attempt, as Kristian states, to excuse his language as humour — but it ain't funny. One can write with verve and humour without resorting to this sort of drivel. Who knows, maybe his trying to stir up interest through notoriety, in what I hope will be a failed attempt to increase subscriptions. —Mitch/Bangkok Bangkok Hysteria (link for downloading book project) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted September 15, 2012 Share #18 Posted September 15, 2012 As a paying subscriber I gave up reading that blog after the first couple visits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted September 15, 2012 Share #19 Posted September 15, 2012 Lloyd appears to be taking blog pointers from Chris Weeks. Many years ago Lloyd wrote an excellent, very in-depth article on sharpness in photography. That prompted me to subscribe to his site for a year. After a lapse of some years, I subscribed again last year, upon discovering that he was writing about Leica. I was hoping to see the same detailed, in-depth discussion of Leica topics some of his previous work had evinced. Alas. What I quickly discovered is that Lloyd is not a rangefinder guy. He complained about his inability to consistently hit focus and his frequent frustrations with the system. Although many of his comments (and criticisms) were topical and accurate, I couldn't get past the feeling that his observations were passing through a filter of fundamental bias. Kind of like if I asked one of my BMW motorbike friends to give me his opinion of the latest Harley; or vice versa. After reading a couple articles, I stopped reading Lloyd's Leica stuff, and let my subscription expire a few months ago. I'm all for valid criticism. Leica's current M system certainly has plenty of weaknesses that are fair game for questioning and critique. But I would hope that such observation start from a place not already diminished by an in-place dislike. We can embrace a product, even while acknowledging its faults. I'd point to Sean Reid as someone who fairly describes the flaws and weaknesses in Leica's products, someone who 'gets' rangefinders - their strengths and weaknesses and where their use is appropriate and where it is not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 15, 2012 Share #20 Posted September 15, 2012 I think most here realize you have to like Leicas to want one. Not everyone likes them so much. That is what makes them a niche camera. Last week a friend and I stopped in to the Leica store here in DC. My friend is a long time advertising photographer. He paid $35,000 for a Kodak DCS 460 and about the same for a Phase One scan back long ago. So he is not shocked by prices. He had used some cheap rangefinders ages ago but knew nothing about the M9. His first question was, "How large is the LCD?" Then they showed him the camera and he tried to get used to focusing with it. He asked, "What's its highest ISO?" Then he shot some frames and said, "How fast can you shoot with this? He played with zooming in on the image a bit. Then he said, "How much does it cost?" After that they proudly pointed out the $25,000 Hermes too. When we left he said to me,"I don't know what kind of photographer would spend $7,000 for those features. A cheap DSLR is much better." So I presume a lot of this will be upgraded on the M10. The electronics go back quite a ways so it is funny to keep them on the "new" Monochrom camera. And I can see a reviewer not liking that aspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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