Which meter reading seems correct?

[SiMPLiFY]

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Very different readings using 2 different metering methods.

 

Expositor App - EV 8 - Floodlit Stadium

ISO 3200

f/2.8 @ 1/1000

f/4 @ 1/500 etc ...

 

Handheld Meter - EV 8

ISO 3200

f/2.8 @ 1/30

f/4 @ 1/15 etc ...

 

I'm confused by this BIG 5 stop difference for the same EV. Can anyone help me understand which one I should use or which one seems more accurate?

 

Thanks

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[SiMPLiFY]

According to this my handheld meter is giving me the proper exposure for ISO 100 even though I have ISO 3200 dialed in. I guess it's broken?

 

This agrees with Expositor. EV 8 Floodlit Sports ISO 3200 f/2.8 @ 1/1000 as a baseline.

 

So ... now what?

[SiMPLiFY]

I feel so stupid! I think I've figured it out though. Tell me if I found the answer please.

 

If I have a camera with a meter then I just set the ISO and I get shutter speeds and apertures and don't need to think about the ISO again. I was doing the same with my handheld meter but missing a step!

 

All of the EV on my meter are based on ISO 100! SO ... if I am photographing a scene and have my ISO set at 3200 and take a reading that is EV 8 I will get a reading based on ISO 100. I then need to ADD the 5 stops of film speed difference to obtain a correct reading!

 

ISO 100 f/2.8 @ 1/30 EV 8

ISO 200 f/2/8 @ 1/60 EV 9

ISO 400 f/2.8 @ 1/125 EV 10

ISO 800 f/2.8 @ 1/250 EV11

ISO 1600 f/2.8 @ 1/500 EV 12

ISO 3200 f/2.8 @ 1/1000 EV 13

 

That's where I messed up using my meter! I didn't add EV per film speed increased in steps between the ISO of 100 and the speed I was photographing at of ISO 3200. PHEW!

 

Right? I think that's right. Is it? If it is right my life should get considerably easier now!

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Kathleen,

 

EV #'s are a sum.

 

The EV # people see on a meter is a sum. It is the EV # of the aperture added to the EV # of the shutter speed, ie:

 

5.6 = EV 5

 

1/8 = EV 3.

 

Add them together & you have an EV of 8.

 

5.6 @ 1/8 = 2.8 @ 1/30 = EV of 8

 

EV0 = 1*******1

EV1 = 1.4****1/2

EV2 = 2******1/4

EV3 = 2.8****1/8

EV4 = 4******1/15

EV5 = 5.6****1/30

EV6 = 8******1/60

EV7 = 11****1/125

EV8 = 16****1/250

EV9 = 22****1/500

EV10 = 32**1/1000

 

Add an F # value + a shutter speed # value & that gives you an EV # sum. That is what you see on a meter. The sum.

 

Note: Sometimes meter sensitivity is defined as a certain EV @ a certain ISO.

 

ie: EV -2.5 @ ISO 100.

 

EV is always simply the sum of the aperture # & the shutter speed #.

 

It is independent of the ISO of the film/sensor. Altho it is sometimes LINKED w/ a specific ISO.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

Further Note: If you look @ the lenses of a Hasselblad 500C from the 1960's you will see a clever disengagable interlock of shutter speed & aperture allowing a person to mainrtain a certain EV while changing either the shutter speed or the aperture. This retains a specific exposure.

[SiMPLiFY]

Hello Kathleen,

 

EV #'s are a sum.

 

The EV # people see on a meter is a sum. It is the EV # of the aperture added to the EV # of the shutter speed, ie:

 

5.6 = EV 5

 

1/8 = EV 3.

 

Add them together & you have an EV of 8.

 

5.6 @ 1/8 = 2.8 @ 1/30 = EV of 8

 

EV0 = 1*******1

EV1 = 1.4****1/2

EV2 = 2******1/4

EV3 = 2.8****1/8

EV4 = 4******1/15

EV5 = 5.6****1/30

EV6 = 8******1/60

EV7 = 11****1/125

EV8 = 16****1/250

EV9 = 22****1/500

EV10 = 32**1/1000

 

Add an F # value + a shutter speed # value & that gives you an EV # sum. That is what you see on a meter. The sum.

 

Note: Sometimes meter sensitivity is defined as a certain EV @ a certain ISO.

 

I think I've got it! My handheld meter has a needle and all of the EV numbers are based on ISO 100. Therefore I need to compensate the EV number as my ISO increases or decreases. I never knew they weren't coupled on this meter until today when I was trying to figure out if it was broken.

 

 

ie: EV -2.5 @ ISO 100.

 

EV is always simply the sum of the aperture # & the shutter speed #.

 

It is independent of the ISO of the film/sensor. Altho it is sometimes LINKED w/ a specific ISO.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

Further Note: If you look @ the lenses of a Hasselblad 500C from the 1960's you will see a clever disengagable interlock of shutter speed & aperture allowing a person to mainrtain a certain EV while changing either the shutter speed or the aperture. This retains a specific exposure.

 

Thank you very much for the EV education. Things should start to get easier now! I finally figured out the metering piece of this puzzle!

 

You've taught me:

 

Loading Film

Unloading Film

Exposure

 

All in one day!

 

I can't wait to go use another roll of film now that things are starting to click!

[pico]

Keep it simple. One f-stop on the lens, one shutter speed. Open the lens one stop faster (lower number) requires one speed faster to make the same exposure, and vice versa. Use EV if you like. I never do, never have.

 

I question how you are using the light meter(s). Do you know exactly what part of the subject you are pointing toward with both? (I do not trust 'apps' to meter.)

 

My handheld meter has a needle and all of the EV numbers are based on ISO 100.

 

What kind of meter is THAT?

[SiMPLiFY]

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It's called a Bower and it's driving me nuts. I thought initially that you set the ISO - took a light reading - put the EV number in the little window and viola - you'd have the aperture and shutter speed options on the dial.

 

NO! ISO 100 and ISO 3200 give the exact same freaking options! f/2.8 @ 1/130 @ EV 8 (floodlit stadium-my daughters senior year)! I have no idea what I am doing wrong! Now it's getting dark earlier and earlier and I was hoping to capture the football games early in the season.

 

I'll paypal someone to skype video me with a lesson in how to use my light meter. PM me if you have a needle style light meter you can show me and you're interested in helping a noob learn how to use it.

[earleygallery]

I suspect that you are reading the dial incorrectly.

 

Google EV or light meters and you'll find lots of information.

 

I would suggest two things - buy another meter, a digital meter will work to lower light levels, if you're planning on evening shots etc. Alternatively, read up on 'Sunny 16' metering. Use this to judge an exposure reading now and then try your meter to see if it more or less matches (you can maybe work out what you should be reading off the dials this way).

[SiMPLiFY]

Thanks, that is exactly what I did. Sunny 16 at ISO 100 should give me a reading of f/16 at 1/125. Then when I change the ISO to 3200 it gives me the exact same reading! f/16 @ 1/125! I know that's not right! It should be 5 stops faster! <grrrrr>

 

The stadium lights should be ISO 3200 at f/2.8 1/1000. My meter is telling me f/2.8 @ 1/30 and it tells me the same no mater what ISO I dial in. That is the reading for ISO100!

 

Maybe I should just buy a digital one! I've seen the sekonic l-308 recommended here.

 

I am just getting very frustrated and think I am probably doing something very stupid and very wrong. I followed the directions and everything!

[pop]

According to pictures I found in the internet, your Bower looks a bit similar to mine which is Lunasix 3 by Gossen:

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Before you start measuring and shooting, you must enter the speed of your film into the device. You do this by turning the top cover of the round dial. The value in the windows labelled "ASA" must show the ISO number of your film. ("ASA" is just the old name for "ISO"). In the picture, I set the meter to 100 ASA (i.e., 100 ISO).



My meter has two different scales for metering, one for when there is much light and one for when there is but little light. You select the scale by pressing on either the fore or aft part of this button. From the pictures in the web I presume that yours has only one scale and, hence, just a simple pushbutton.

Point your meter, press the push buttton gently but firmly, wait until the needle has settled and release the push button slowly. This should lock the needle into position.

Take care not to move the meter between pressing and releasing the button, although a small movement by a few degrees will not hurt.



(to be continued in next post)

[pop]

Now that your meter has measured the light, the needle points at a number. On my Lunasix the number is black on yellow background. The following image shows the needle pointing at one dot beyond the number 14.

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Read that number and turn the round dial until the yellow triangle below points at the same number as the needle, e.g. one dot beyond 14. Note that the numbers are also black on a yellow background.



The upper part of the round dial now shows all combinations of aperture and shutter times which will admit the correct amount of light to your film or sensor.



The Lunasix shows three sets of numbers:
The topmost set is labelled as "Zeit" which is German for "time". The white letters on black are the short times (fractions of a second): '500, '250, '125 and so forth.
The second set is labelled as "f/" and shows apertures: 1, 1.4, 2, 2.8 and so forth.
The third set of numbers applies to movie cameras only. Please ignore it.

Select one pair of adjacent values which best suits your picture-to-be, such as f1/.4, 1/250 second or f1/8, 1/8 second.

Does this help?

[pico]

It's called a Bower and it's driving me nuts. I thought initially that you set the ISO - took a light reading - put the EV number in the little window and viola - you'd have the aperture and shutter speed options on the dial.

 

Are you sure that is not a cine light meter?

 

In any event, it is an antique. Treat yourself to the Gossen mentioned above, or something similar so that you can see several equivalent exposures at a glance.

 

.

[SiMPLiFY]

pop, (That's what my children call my father)

 

Thank you for the photos and the concise explanation. It shows that what I am actually doing is correct. So I followed your instructions which are very clearly written. That is exactly what my instructions say to do. It only works for ISO 100 as far as getting an accurate reading on my meter.

 

Mine does have the feature for both light and dark conditions and looks quite similar to yours albeit a much cheaper Japanese model.

 

I set my ISO at 100

I just took a meter reading inside my house and it is 7

I turn the numbers until the number in the yellow triangle says 7

The lower part of my dial shows F stops and shutter speed options going from f/2.8 @ 1/15 to f/16 @ 2" with the series of options between just like yours does.

 

Now I want to increase my film speed because the conditions are dark

I reset my ISO to 3200

I take another reading in the same spot as before and it is also 7

I turn the numbers until the number in the yellow triangle says 7

The lower part of my dial show F stops and shutter speed options going from f/2.8 @ 1/15 to f/16 @ 2".

 

That cannot possibly be correct because ISO 3200 is 5 stops faster than ISO 100.

 

Should it not be reading f/2.8 @ 1/500 to f/16 @ 1/15? Does that mean that my meter is broken?

 

If you change your ISO to 3200 and take a reading does it display a different EV number or does it also give you the 1 dot beyond 14?

 

If you dial the 14 in at that point does your meter compensate for the 5 stop difference between ISO 100 and ISO 3200?

 

Mine does not appear to so it only appears useful if I meter and 100 and count steps as needed for faster film.

[SiMPLiFY]

I also just took it outdoors in the sun.

I set it at ISO 100

Took a reading and got EV 16

My meter reads f/16 @ 1/250

I thought sunny 16 is f/16 at film speed for shutter speed therefore

ISO 100 speed film should have the shutter speed at 1/125!!!!

ISO 200 f/16 @ 1/25

ISO 400 f/16 @ 1500 and so on ...

 

Maybe I'm just really really stupid but I don't think I am.

[SiMPLiFY]

So, I got my digital camera out!

and tested the meter against the Bower.

I set the ISO at 3200 same on the Bower.

I set the aperture to f/2.8 and metered on a kitchen cabinet

The digital camera gave me 1/60 @ f/2.8

The Bower gave me EV 5 and at f/2.8 the recommended shutter speed was 1/4!

 

Maybe my meter really is broken or just a cheap piece of junk.

 

Someone in another thread recommended a digisix gossen one. It's little like the Bower. I wonder if that one will couple with an ISO adjustment or just pretend like everything in the world is ISO 100 like the one I have now.

[SiMPLiFY]

I just ordered a gossen digisix digital one from B&H (free shipping YAY!) It's digital and couples the ISO with the EV readout to give me an exposure more like what I am used to with an in camera meter. If nothing else I should feel much much more comfortable and to me, that means a lot!

 

If anyone wants my Bower D-3 I'll pay the postage to get rid of it and give it away! It is really cute and really little. I just can't get it to give me a reading unless I want to use ISO 100 for the rest of my life.

 

Thank you all again for helping me. I still don't know if the Bower is broken or if I just can't wrap my head around how to use it properly.

[pop]

Kathleen - thank you for your kind words.

 

"pop" is BTW just how I initial letters and bills at work. However, I like to play with alternate meanings such as what people call elderly males and so on.

 

To the business at hand:

 

I suppose you realize that the round dial atop your meter is a composite of two circular discs which can be turned independently of each other? Hence, when setting the film speed you turn just the upper disc. When setting the value obtained by the needle you turn both disks at the same time. This should happen automatically when you hold the outer disc at its knurled border. The upper (inner) disc should just stick to the other one and turn as well.

 

It might be useful if you could show us what your meter looks like when set to ISO 100 and a reading of - say - "7" and what it looks like when set to ISO 3200 at the same reading of "7".

 

Perhaps you have a simpler digital camera or a mobile phone which can take close-ups.

 

Edit: seeing that you have decided not to use it anymore, the point might be moot.

[pico]

I also just took it outdoors in the sun.

I set it at ISO 100

Took a reading and got EV 16

My meter reads f/16 @ 1/250

I thought sunny 16 is f/16 at film speed for shutter speed therefore

ISO 100 speed film should have the shutter speed at 1/125!!!!

ISO 200 f/16 @ 1/25

ISO 400 f/16 @ 1500 and so on ...

[...]

 

I can see you are angry by your typos.

 

Sunny Sixteen is an approximation, a rule of thumb with exceptions, but we can get to the nuances later.

 

Can you post a picture of your light meter?

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Hallo,

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[SiMPLiFY]

Here is the meter with an EV reading of 11 on my front porch. Apologies for the crummy snaps. You could say that I'm a tad flustered.

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[pop]

Oh -

 

You seem to think that the value you read off the needle is the EV value. It is not. Therefore, you should turn the outer disk such that the number read off the needle is apposite the white dot on the top right corner (at two o'clock).

 

Your needle reads "11" in both pictures. In the left one you have set the dial (the round disc) to "6" while in the right one it's properly set to "11".

 

Again: the needle does NOT show EV values. It's an arbitrary scale which just shows a number you are supposed to set on the circular dial (the "disc").

 

Edit: do not throw it into the ocean. Some fish might get the hiccups. Besides, it seems to be working.