Paulus Posted September 7, 2012 Share #1 Posted September 7, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I happened to notice , that my Ilford FB paper isn't getting really white anymore. With filter 5 is still have trouble getting the white in my photos white. I also notice that in the dark grey areas the grey is not totally grey, but it's having some lighter and darker grey areas. It might be possible, that after using my large stock, that I have bought some 4 years ago the paper is deteriorating. After keeping it in my darkroom ( it's a cellar ) so long. Am I right in thinking this, or could it be something else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Hi Paulus, Take a look here Times to ditch the Ilford paperboxes?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted September 7, 2012 Share #2 Posted September 7, 2012 I had a brief period of similar frustration caused by a deteriorated sodium-vapor safelight filter. Replaced it and all is well again. If you have a bulb safelight, have you perhaps changed to a brighter bulb? Another possibility regarding what you might be describing - mottled appearance - is usually due to expired developer. How old is the paper? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 7, 2012 Share #3 Posted September 7, 2012 Over time, paper will fog slightly. In total darkness take a small unexposed piece directly from the box, expose half of this piece to your safelight and develop in total darkness in case Pico is correct about your safelight. If your image is fogged slightly on both parts the safelight is probably ok. Try adding a little Potassium Bromide to your developer and repeat the test sample. Start with a small amount around .5 grams per liter and then add more if necessary. Too much and your paper may change tone or be less sensitive to exposure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted September 7, 2012 I had a brief period of similar frustration caused by a deteriorated sodium-vapor safelight filter. Replaced it and all is well again. If you have a bulb safelight, have you perhaps changed to a brighter bulb? Another possibility regarding what you might be describing - mottled appearance - is usually due to expired developer. How old is the paper? Thanks for your comment pico! The Kodak Safel ght fiter wratten series 1a shows some deterioration in its letters: SAFEL GHT. Maybe it's time for a new one, but where can one buy the thing in this day and age? I opened a different smaller paper box 18*24 cm . This one shows a little better but not much. I bought the stock when the M8 appeared on the market. Developer is about half a year old. I try a new bottle tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted September 7, 2012 Over time, paper will fog slightly. In total darkness take a small unexposed piece directly from the box, expose half of this piece to your safelight and develop in total darkness in case Pico is correct about your safelight. If your image is fogged slightly on both parts the safelight is probably ok. Try adding a little Potassium Bromide to your developer and repeat the test sample. Start with a small amount around .5 grams per liter and then add more if necessary. Too much and your paper may change tone or be less sensitive to exposure. I'll try it tomorrow thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 7, 2012 Share #6 Posted September 7, 2012 SAFELIGHT. Maybe it's time for a new one, but where can one buy the thing in this day and age? That big auction site - but at some risk, as usual. Old filters may fade. Most big camera stores still carry them new either as a complete unit or just replacement filters. Are you sure the series 1A filter is correct? That's red, isn't it? I use Ilford's SL1 because it is bright, and their recommended filter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 7, 2012 Share #7 Posted September 7, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Until you test your safelight by my suggestion above, don't open any more boxes where their contents can get exposed to the safelight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted September 7, 2012 Share #8 Posted September 7, 2012 Paper can go off, but after 4 years I suspect that the loss is not noticible without careful tests against a very fresh batch. I would get new developer - 6 month old develop is likely a problem. In my experience, developer should be freshly made every time. And don't try to get more paper through than it states on the package - very poor economy if you want good prints. Use lots and use fresh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 7, 2012 Share #9 Posted September 7, 2012 Well it is always a good idea to use fresh developer but that mostly affects dmax and contrast. I don't think old developer could keep your paper from being "white" unless you left it in for so long that it started processing the unexposed areas or stained it somehow. Nor would a # 5 grade filter affect the lightest white tone. Your cellar might have a lot of humidity that is causing the paper to fog. Excessive heat is another problem but not likely to be the case in a cellar. The Dmin (maximum white value) is very easy to test for by simply processing an unexposed piece of paper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share #10 Posted September 7, 2012 That big auction site - but at some risk, as usual. Old filters may fade. Most big camera stores still carry them new either as a complete unit or just replacement filters. Are you sure the series 1A filter is correct? That's red, isn't it? I use Ilford's SL1 because it is bright, and their recommended filter. No I'am not sure, but I didn't have trouble with it in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted September 7, 2012 Well it is always a good idea to use fresh developer but that mostly affects dmax and contrast. I don't think old developer could keep your paper from being "white" unless you left it in for so long that it started processing the unexposed areas or stained it somehow. Nor would a # 5 grade filter affect the lightest white tone. Your cellar might have a lot of humidity that is causing the paper to fog. Excessive heat is another problem but not likely to be the case in a cellar. The Dmin (maximum white value) is very easy to test for by simply processing an unexposed piece of paper. I have doubts about the humidity. It's a wonderful dry cellar. One could dry the laundry in it if one wanted. Excessive heat isn't a problem. In very hot summers, it stays under the 23 degrees Celsius. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted September 8, 2012 Share #12 Posted September 8, 2012 Has your paper been kept in a cupboard with any chemicals? Vapour/fume fogging can become a problem if paper is stored for years in the usual darkroom environment. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted September 8, 2012 Has your paper been kept in a cupboard with any chemicals? Vapour/fume fogging can become a problem if paper is stored for years in the usual darkroom environment. Steve Yes it has, but always rapped in plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share #14 Posted September 8, 2012 That big auction site - but at some risk, as usual. Old filters may fade. Most big camera stores still carry them new either as a complete unit or just replacement filters. Are you sure the series 1A filter is correct? That's red, isn't it? I use Ilford's SL1 because it is bright, and their recommended filter. I have printed some photos without using the safelight today. I don't see much difference. Also have I made new developer. That did not change the fogging. I will buy a new box of paper and see what will happen. My only concern is, that the shop will not have fresh paper. How can one see how long it is laying on the shelf in the store? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 8, 2012 Share #15 Posted September 8, 2012 I have printed some photos without using the safelight today. I don't see much difference.Also have I made new developer. That did not change the fogging. I will buy a new box of paper and see what will happen. My only concern is, that the shop will not have fresh paper. How can one see how long it is laying on the shelf in the store? I haven't bought paper in a long time but it always had an expiration date printed on it. If you can get Potassium Bromide, try it as I recommended. It works as a "restrainer" and may keep your paper looking whiter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share #16 Posted September 15, 2012 It was possible to order Ilford paper directly from England. I have tried it today and it looks good. Gradation 5 has become 3,5 again. I can't see substantial influence from the safelight, but just to be careful I will continue to print develop and stop with the safelight of. I have another small safelight burning which gives ample light to see what I'am doing. Thank you for your advice. Only thing to do is, what am I going to do with the 5 boxes of to old paper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 15, 2012 Share #17 Posted September 15, 2012 I have printed some photos without using the safelight today. I don't see much difference.Also have I made new developer. That did not change the fogging. I will buy a new box of paper and see what will happen. My only concern is, that the shop will not have fresh paper. How can one see how long it is laying on the shelf in the store? Now I am worried. The idea of not having fresh paper freaks me out. Before I do freak out, assure me that you did not over-develop the paper. That can cause fogging, too. There is no way to find manufacturing date on a box of Ilford paper. Years ago, Ilford's primary responsible person was David Carper and he did not reveal how he determines the date from the codes put on each box (or batch). Only thing to do is, what am I going to do with the 5 boxes of to old paper. I do not mean this at your expense, but I would be happier if we learned that your paper came from a bad lot. I'm sure Ilford would make good on it. By 'bad lot' I realize it is unlikely. It is still possible that the paper was over-heated in transit, or something like that. This would be a great reason to contact Ilford agan and press them to reveal the method to determine freshness. The information would be a welcome addition to a FAQ. Good luck, and please keep us informed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 15, 2012 Share #18 Posted September 15, 2012 Thank you for your advice. Only thing to do is, what am I going to do with the 5 boxes of to old paper. I doubt if you can get a refund on paper that is several years old. All photo material has a finite shelf life and they all start fogging (very slowly) from day one. But you never know. At least by contacting them you might find out how old your paper is and how long its shelf life is supposed to be. I'm surprised there is no expiration date on it. If you don't want to try my potassium bromide idea and can't exchange the paper, you could always try toning it. Maybe sepia if that works for any of your images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share #19 Posted September 15, 2012 I did not over develop the paper, the new paper was developed with the same developer ( the on from 5 days ago! ) and it looks fine. The different boxes came from the same shop in Rotterdam. A shop for photo professionals in which a lot of paper was sold per week. There is a chance that they came from the same batch, but it would be likely they weren't. I don't know how to find out. It's difficult for me to search in my bookkeeping because it could be almost 5-7 years ago. Also the boxes were of different size: 18*24, 20*25,30*40 FB I shall try to contact Ilford. I'am curious how they will react. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadside Posted September 15, 2012 Share #20 Posted September 15, 2012 I just bought a "new" sealed box of 50 sheets of Agfa Record-Rapid from the bay. I live in hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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