hammam Posted March 12, 2007 Share #1 Posted March 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just received the last issue of the Leica to M8 customers letter. Firmware 1.10 is expected to be available by mid-april. The shipping of the lenses has «commenced». According to the letter, «Due to the especially high demand for the LEICA M8 it may take a couple of weeks in some cases until the desired filters can be shipped.» «Couple of weeks» will be deep into April, if you take into account travel, customs (Canadian customs are especially ludicrous), etc.... This is far from the February date initially planned. Oh, well... Leica says firmware 1.10 plus coding will get rid of the cyan shift with wide angle lenses (and they include 35 mm.) Nice. But what troubles me most is this (please, don't flame me for being negative): « Therefore, Leica recommends using exclusively the special Leica UV/IR filters on the lenses in order to prevent the infrared light from reaching the CCD sensor. These screw-in type filters work based on interference. As a result, and depending on the angle of the incident light, they have a differing degree of spectral transmission, which in turn can lead to color offsets towards the images’ edges with focal lengths from 16 to 35mm. Together with coded lenses, the firmware version 1.10. corrects these color offsets. (Using other UV/IR filters can result in uncontrollable color offsets that cannot be compensated even by the upcoming firmware!) » This is exactly what I feared in my post of last week, when I referred to Nikon forcing you to buy their Raw conversion program for the D2X. So, if you don't use our filters, tough luck buddy, keep your cyan shift. I am really curiousto see at what price the so-called «Leica filters» (which are probably B+W 486 Pro in disguise) will sell over the counter compare to run-of-the-mill B+Ws. I thought I was smart when I ordered the complimentary filters from Leica in 43 and 46 since they are more expensive than the 39, but now what do I do with the three 39 filters I already bought? Two are Heliopans, one is B+W. Trash them to buy Leica instead? Mmm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 Hi hammam, Take a look here Communication from Leica, finally.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ken_tanaka Posted March 12, 2007 Share #2 Posted March 12, 2007 Yes. Today I, too, received that email message which is clearly addressed specifically to registered M8 owners. Good for Leica! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted March 12, 2007 Share #3 Posted March 12, 2007 If you don't want to buy Leica filters, why not just correct in post? Another way to look at this (glass half full?) is that Leica is giving you the option of buying filters that are bespoke to this camera. Perhaps the cyan drift is more of a problem for you, in which case I apologize for being flippant about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 12, 2007 Share #4 Posted March 12, 2007 They are the same specs as the B+W 486 IR cut filter, even though they are made at different companies they all are going by those specs. and yes shipping has commenced. This was a big effort to get these to the market in short order but there on there way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted March 12, 2007 Share #5 Posted March 12, 2007 I am really curiousto see at what price the so-called «Leica filters» (which are probably B+W 486 Pro in disguise) will sell over the counter compare to run-of-the-mill B+Ws. IF it is "just another filter in disguise" you will not see a difference in IR sensibility and/ or corrected cyan drift and you could just buy the other cheaper brand could not you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 12, 2007 Share #6 Posted March 12, 2007 Without doubt, when these filters hit the street, there will be a huge number of posts comparing them to others. That will be the time to judge the differences.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted March 12, 2007 Share #7 Posted March 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...yes another insane irrelavant nit to pick. someone will no doubt invoke the dreaded "closed proprietary" harbinger of DOOM. With all the other factors that control color reproduction is this hardly worth a whit? Anyone remember scanning color neg? Anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted March 12, 2007 Share #8 Posted March 12, 2007 I think that from now on Leica should sell their lenses with filter included, same as they put cap, hood and case. Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 12, 2007 Share #9 Posted March 12, 2007 Eric, I agree, and coding a lens should include the filter to make the lens "digital ready". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted March 12, 2007 I think that from now on Leica should sell their lenses with filter included, same as they put cap, hood and case. Eric Absolutely. Now, let me get this straight. My problem is not the cyan shift per se. It is that if Leica strongly advise their customers to buy filters bearing the name Leica (they use the word «exclusively»), lest they'd get stuck with cyan shift, AND if Leica filters are more expensive than other brands AND if possibly cheaper B+W produce the same results (which Guy considers) then, yes, I think this is a dubious tactic. Actually, even if they're the same price. Why advise to buy anything else but a Leica product if the same product from another brand does exactly the same thing? This not worthy of Leica, and unacceptable in the present state of affairs of the M8's problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted March 12, 2007 Share #11 Posted March 12, 2007 Yes, I just got my e-mail too. A good sign of improvement. Bravo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted March 12, 2007 Share #12 Posted March 12, 2007 Absolutely. Now, let me get this straight. My problem is not the cyan shift per se. It is that if Leica strongly advise their customers to buy filters bearing the name Leica (they use the word «exclusively»), lest they'd get stuck with cyan shift, AND if Leica filters are more expensive than other brands AND if possibly cheaper B+W produce the same results (which Guy considers) then, yes, I think this is a dubious tactic. Actually, even if they're the same price. Why advise to buy anything else but a Leica product if the same product from another brand does exactly the same thing? This not worthy of Leica, and unacceptable in the present state of affairs of the M8's problems. Olivier, I don't know for sure, but this could well be "legal butt covering." While it's not particularly attractive, it may be the only way Leica can guarantee satisfactory results. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 12, 2007 Share #13 Posted March 12, 2007 Absolutely. Now, let me get this straight. My problem is not the cyan shift per se. It is that if Leica strongly advise their customers to buy filters bearing the name Leica (they use the word «exclusively»), lest they'd get stuck with cyan shift, AND if Leica filters are more expensive than other brands AND if possibly cheaper B+W produce the same results (which Guy considers) then, yes, I think this is a dubious tactic. Actually, even if they're the same price. Why advise to buy anything else but a Leica product if the same product from another brand does exactly the same thing? This not worthy of Leica, and unacceptable in the present state of affairs of the M8's problems. One thing you won't get with other brands of filters is that the other brands may not allow you to use the hood for the lens. Leica filter are usually of the slim type and the outside dimension of the ring is usually smaller. Making them fit inside the hood. Other filters are bigger and could stop the hood from going on the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 12, 2007 Share #14 Posted March 12, 2007 Well, with the filters identical to B&W and not even in our hands yet, are we not a little premature in identifying problems, to say the least? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 12, 2007 Share #15 Posted March 12, 2007 They're just saying that they guarantee the performance with their own filters IMHO and that they can't do so for other manufacturers. Actually of course the filters are made by a 3rd party to Leica's specification. This doesn't necessarily mean that the B+W filters won't work just as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 12, 2007 Share #16 Posted March 12, 2007 One thing you won't get with other brands of filters is that the other brands may not allow you to use the hood for the lens. Leica filter are usually of the slim type and the outside dimension of the ring is usually smaller. Making them fit inside the hood. Other filters are bigger and could stop the hood from going on the lens. Good point - I've had a bad time with my old 50 Lux. Original hood doesn't work with the standard B&W filter so I've had to waste time on Ebay sourcing something that more or less does the job. Nice to go back to the hood I'm used to and like working with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted March 12, 2007 Share #17 Posted March 12, 2007 I think that from now on Leica should sell their lenses with filter included, same as they put cap, hood and case. Eric How would Leica filmusers feel about this .... You pay for the caps, the hood and the case .. it's all in the price ,,,,, you are fooling yourself if you expect free-rides with included filters ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted March 12, 2007 Share #18 Posted March 12, 2007 Absolutely. Now, let me get this straight. My problem is not the cyan shift per se. It is that if Leica strongly advise their customers to buy filters bearing the name Leica (they use the word «exclusively»), lest they'd get stuck with cyan shift, AND if Leica filters are more expensive than other brands AND if possibly cheaper B+W produce the same results (which Guy considers) then, yes, I think this is a dubious tactic. Actually, even if they're the same price. Why advise to buy anything else but a Leica product if the same product from another brand does exactly the same thing? This not worthy of Leica, and unacceptable in the present state of affairs of the M8's problems. Sure, no problem ... they will update the pricing by increasing all prices of lenses by $120. May be the key to customer satisfaction is to absorb that cost of the filters since it isn't the customer's fault and I am paying out of my pocket for these expensive filters to cover the rest of my lenses minus the 2 free ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakley Posted March 12, 2007 Share #19 Posted March 12, 2007 I wouldn't expect them to say "use any old filters you want and everything will be OK". I also expect the B+W filters I've already bought will be just fine regardless of what the letter says. And in addition to that, I already know how to correct cyan corners in Photoshop, and it's dead easy. My feeling is that this just isn't a big issue. I'll be exceedingly happy if they spend no more energy on this problem until they get the bugs ("jumping menus", green stripe, etc...) worked out of the firmware, get sudden death syndrome under control, and get the battery issues fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 12, 2007 Share #20 Posted March 12, 2007 If Leica can get the thickness and OD of their filters just right to permit their fancy lens shades to continue to work, more power to them. There have been two posts that compare the Leica prices to B&W prices and the result was Leica more expensive by about a third, which we may have to live with. It's about the same as the difference between the prices of a Panasonic P&S and the Leica branded version of the same camera. But I would avoid Tiffen and Heliopan, which do appear to do less well than B&W. Once the filters are out, I recommend getting a Pringles lid, or whatever the incident version of the WhiBal is called, and seeing for ourselves what red vignetting we experience and how well 1.10 and its successors do at removing it. The first pass vignetting corrections were pretty approximate, and the techniques used to see what was going on (Sean Reid's white walls outdoors) can be improved. If anyone wants to see actual numbers rather than just look at pictures with white centers and green edges, i have some matlab programs that i will run for anyone who is interested. And maybe I can convince Norm Koren to put this question into his Imatest program. I have just a few lenses, but within this forum community, with a little care, we can check pretty much everything that is in common use. Remember that the fast non-wide angles, esp. the Noctilux, also are known to vignette severly when wide open, too. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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