olwick Posted August 9, 2012 Share #1 Â Posted August 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, Â I'm just getting an M9 and am looking at spare battery options. I obviously don't want to put my M9 at risk, but I also don't want to throw money away if I don't have to. Â So could anyone shed some light on whether the cheaper third party batteries work on the M9 or do I need to buy the official Leica one for 10X more? Â Thanks, Â Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 Hi olwick, Take a look here Third party batteries in the M9?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
trond Posted August 9, 2012 Share #2  Posted August 9, 2012 Dear Mark,  Never use third party batteries for your M9 or any other of your battery operated devices.  Li-Ion batteries use different composition of chemistry, there are literally hundreds of different chemical compositions, each of these requires a custom tailored charge curve.  If charged incorrectly, the batteries may explode or wear out too quickly.  Good batteries have internal monitoring that keeps control of the internal health of the battery, cheap batteries don´t, because the manufacturer saves 50 cent for the monitoring!  Leica batteries are qualified for use with the M9, other batteries are not qualified.  If you are lucky no harm is done, if unlucky you risk a 8000 dollar camera to save a few bucks.  It is perfectly possible that a given third party battery is a good one, but there is no way of knowing until it may be too late, so why risk it to save a few dollars!?  Li-Ion batteries are very energetic devices, some of them exceeds the energy density of TNT or C5 plastic explosives, so don´t mess around with them!  I would never risk my M9, Dlux, Canon, laptop (or my life or property) for saving a few bucks on a battery for a 8000 dollar camera!  Don´t do it!  Best regards  Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Michel Posted August 9, 2012 Share #3 Â Posted August 9, 2012 Why take the risk of getting a sub-standard battery? Leica, Canon, Panasonic, I only buy the batteries made for those cameras. From reading other threads here I gather that third party batteries work but that you do not see any info on hem on your menu screen. In Canada, a Leica battery is about $140, not cheap but not unaffordable either. Jean-Michel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayewing Posted August 9, 2012 Share #4 Â Posted August 9, 2012 This topic has come up before and has provoked controversy. At one time Leica batteries were in short supply so many Leica users had on option but to buy non OEM batteries. Â The consensus was that they worked in the sense that they could be charged and the M9 would run on them but because they lacked sone proprietory electronics the power meter in the camera could not read the level of charge. There was a partial workaround by running the battery down until the camera shut down and then charging it fully. The meter would then register a full charge. Â There is a theoretical risk in using non OEM batteries though the forums are not full of accounts of such disasters. Â In the absence of a satisfactory non OEM alternative the official batteries will continue to be a nice little earner for Leica and its dealers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trond Posted August 9, 2012 Share #5  Posted August 9, 2012 Good luck, but not for me!  The energy density of these things are on the same level as TNT plastic explosives.  The risk of something going wrong is more than theoretical, and the consequences are at best a damaged camera...  Why on earth would you risk something like that to save a few bucks?  The internet is full of disaster reports on Li-Ion batteries.  Get original batteries, and hold the supplier responsible if something goes wrong.  Best regards  Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 9, 2012 Share #6 Â Posted August 9, 2012 If there is a custom chip in Leica's battery that can carry an ID, then does their battery have that code? And if it does, why doesn't the firmware read it and warn the user if there is a mis-match? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted August 9, 2012 Share #7 Â Posted August 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) After spending a lot of money on an M9 why nickel and dime the camera and possibly ruin it for a few bucks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayewing Posted August 9, 2012 Share #8 Â Posted August 9, 2012 I am not advocating the use of non OEM batteries as at present no satisfactory alternatives exist. Â The scare stories do seem a little overblown considering that Lithium Ion technology is now fairly mature and there must be millions of batteries in use in mobile phones, laptops, cameras and cars throughout the world with few problems reported apart from the case of overheating laptop batteries recalled by a large reputable Japanese manufacturer some years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olwick Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share #9 Â Posted August 9, 2012 That's what I seem to be sensing too, Archie. People are talking about explosions, TNT and frying the M9, but I haven't found any actual evidence that it's happened. Â After I posted my question, I found this thread on RFF, which seems to indicate that they work in around 70% of cases. And when they failed, the battery simply wouldn't work. No mention of any damage to the camera. Â http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84409 Â As I said in my original post, I don't want to put my camera at risk, but I'm having trouble finding hard evidence that could be the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted August 10, 2012 Share #10 Â Posted August 10, 2012 OK, so an M9 original battery costs in the US $130. So what does a company X battery cost? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olwick Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share #11 Â Posted August 10, 2012 Many in the $12 - $15 range, hence my 10X price comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 10, 2012 Share #12 Â Posted August 10, 2012 The great problem with Li-Ion batteries is that you cannot infer very much about its state of charge by measuring the output voltage alone - which will in any case vary when the battery is off-load and on-load. Instead Li-Ion batteries have a management chip in them which counts coulombs (amp-seconds) as it is charged and discharged on the basis of what goes in must come out though there will be a fudge factor applied somewhere to compensate as the cell ages. Â A major function of the monitoring chip is to ensure the cell operates within a safe envelope so will prevent excessive charging voltage and current and excessive discharge current. Short circuit a charged battery and the fuse in the chip will blow and the cell will be dead. All of this is to keep the cell operating temperature within safe limits. Â When being charged, the charger monitors the cell temperature via a separate connection; in the camera, an additional connection provides a serial data interface to the camera to allow it to interrogate the charge counter and display a meaningful battery meter. Â It sounds like Leica have changed those fudge factors so as not to take the cell so close to a completely discharged state. This will make for reduced battery life in both senses - lower shots per charge and a shorter life before the battery is deemed end-of-life but it should make for more reliable camera operation. My sense is that some of the card writing problems were down to a marginal power supply. Â I expect using "compatible" batteries in the camera will become even more difficult as a result of these changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 10, 2012 Share #13 Â Posted August 10, 2012 I always thought the third party batteries charge level could be read accurately in the M8, which would imply that it is more to do with the M9's circuitry than the third party battery? Â As regards the explosion's that are happening in M9's each and every day with third party batteries, the root cause is often the desire to take a photograph, rather than wait six months for Leica to supply a new battery (as was the case upon release of the M9). Of course we only hear about disasters because on the internet you do only tend to hear the bad news. Which come to think of it is curious, because I would have thought that by now somebody would have reported an exploding M9, or an M9 that has at least smoked a bit? So sanctimonious drivel about 'why would you use a third party battery.........' should be taken in context with supply of OEM batteries (some people are blessed to have been able to buy one 'on demand'), and the overriding need for a photographer to take a photography and not be content to sit around thinking about it. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelagia Posted August 10, 2012 Share #14 Â Posted August 10, 2012 Mark, I suppose you want facts not opinions. Here are mine: I have 3 batteries from different levels of authenticity: a. the original which came with the camera, b. the one bought via internet from a reputable photo and video shop, c. and the one bought via internet from a Chinise shop. Â I have the same opinion that why pay 10x more. But the facts are: a. no problems for 3 years b. slight problems, camera hangs at low temperatures c. constant problems with level of charge indicator ("low battery" when freshly charged). Â My opinion is: if you can live with the fact that you may loose shots (or loose valuable time) because of the battery's malfunction, then buy the cheap ones. If you want to have a full proof system, then buy original. The money you spend you get back in work quality and time. Â P.S. I disagree with opinions "you buy an expensive camera and can not afford an expensive battery?". This is my case. I can afford the camera, but not the battery at that price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted August 10, 2012 Share #15 Â Posted August 10, 2012 P.S. I disagree with opinions "you buy an expensive camera and can not afford an expensive battery?". This is my case. I can afford the camera, but not the battery at that price. Â This is very curious statement. You pay $7000 or $8000 for an M9 body. You spend at least another $3000 minimum for a " basic" M lens and you cannot afford a $130 Leica battery because it is $130. Â So most of us spend pretty handsome sums to go places and take photos while there. I cannot believe after spending money to travel anywhere that you would chance using a Chinese battery or some Internet clone battery on the chance you could ruin images that might just be once in a lifetime occurrences. Some sunrises and also some sunsets I have been lucky enough to photograph have the " best" light last for maybe 3 minutes. Â If you have the chance of a battery failing at the wrong time, that wastes much more money than the $115 difference in battery prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 10, 2012 Share #16 Â Posted August 10, 2012 I wish more batteries would fail at sunset. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 10, 2012 Share #17 Â Posted August 10, 2012 What is wrong with sunsets? It is still one of the most spectacular shows displayed by nature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted August 11, 2012 Share #18 Â Posted August 11, 2012 What is wrong with sunsets? It is still one of the most spectacular shows displayed by nature. Â Agree and that's why I want a first rate battery when I'm at the ready for a spectacular show displayed by nature.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Valdemar Posted August 11, 2012 Share #19 Â Posted August 11, 2012 I have 3 "genuine" Leica batteries and 4 eBay batteries. Â So far, no huge explosions. (this topic has been done to death in other threads in the past. suffice to say the dire warnings are complete nonsense). Â One thing I noticed. Since the latest and greatest firmware upgrade 1.196, it seems to me that the "chip" in the Leica battery is being overridden. All of my El Cheapo batteries are now registering the proper charge level when checked in the menu. This may be a fluke or it may be the firmware. I'm going to partially discharge the cheapo batteries and try again to see what happens. Â Search the forum. These people saying you shouldn't use anything other than "Leica" batteries are repeating almost comical memes they read on the internet. They haven't actually used non-OEM batteries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted August 11, 2012 Share #20 Â Posted August 11, 2012 @Valdemar Admit I have no non-eom batteries. What is the brand name of the ones you own. I will keep an open mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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