ejd Posted July 21, 2012 Share #1 Posted July 21, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have read a lot recently on various forums about Xtol suffering from a kind of suddent death syndrome. I bought a pack of it some years ago meaning to use it, but a bottle of Rodinal I have just seems to go on for ever. At 6 ml per film, it takes a lot of films to get through 500 ml of it. Meanwhile I see that on the Xtol pack it says the expiry date is sometime in 2009. The Ilford data sheets all say that their powder developers keep indefinitely in dry powder form. What about Xtol? Is it likely to be OK still? It is in two packs of powder, presumably to prevent any chemical reactions that would degrade it from taking place. I will try it out to find out, of course, eventually. But still it would be interesting to hear of anyone's thoughts and experiences on this topic. Many thanks in advance for any comments! All the best, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Hi ejd, Take a look here Xtol sudden death and durability in dry unimxed form. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
erl Posted July 22, 2012 Share #2 Posted July 22, 2012 I have used Xtol for years and it is an excellent developer, for my purposes. It does come packed in powder form in two separate sealed bags, Part A and Part B. Mixing is easy. AFIK it only comes only as a 15Ltr pack, which used to last me 12 months easily. Now, as most of my production is digital, I find it necessary to ditch it 12 months after mixing. I have just started weighing and and measuring very small quantities of the powder on demand, mixing just enough to last several months. I don't hesitate to waste stock solution after several months as it is so cheap. It does not 'die' suddenly, but loses activity gradually. Any sign of slight underdevelopment in older stock and I dump it immediately. Incidentally, I am talking about 'one shot' development. I see no value or virtue in re-using any developer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejd Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted July 22, 2012 Thanks, Erl. Very useful info. I have a pack of it, as you say, in two parts, A and B, that makes 5 litres. The question I'm most interested in is, does it go off when kept dry in the unopened packs as it comes from the shop? Or will it keep forever like most other developers? Thanks. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPerson Posted July 22, 2012 Share #4 Posted July 22, 2012 John - there was a problem back in the late 90s with just the 1L packs. Kodak stopped producing those and just went with 5L packs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 22, 2012 Share #5 Posted July 22, 2012 John, I meant 5 ltr, not 15, above. I am sure it keeps well in the powder after opening, without mixing. That is exactly what I do. I do carefully fold the packet after extracting some powder to mix and hold closed with a clothes peg. Very high tech! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotohuis Posted July 22, 2012 Share #6 Posted July 22, 2012 If the package is closed and the powder is dry you can still use it. The critical component in Xtol is Ascorbic Acid which is very sensible for metall ions. It can die suddenly when dissolving Xtol in water with Mangane/Iron after a few months of making the stock. So the water quality is important with Xtol. In case of doubt use destilled water for the 5 ltr. stock solution. 6 months at least can be guaranteed. Alternative: Fomadon Excel W27 a Foma Xtol clone but in a 1 ltr. packing. In case of 35mm films much more practical. The regular dilution is in fact 1+1. Fine grain, box speed are the main advantages of this developer. Especially iso 200-400 and up films and the modern technology films (Tmax, Delta, Acros, Fomapan 200) are coming out beautiful. Fotohuis RoVo's Gallery - Fomapan Roll Film/Viking boat in Norway by Bjorn Joachimsen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveler_101 Posted July 22, 2012 Share #7 Posted July 22, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have read a lot recently on various forums about Xtol suffering from a kind of suddent death syndrome. . . . it would be interesting to hear of anyone's thoughts and experiences on this topic. Many thanks in advance for any comments! All the best, John Hi John, I bought XTOL but never used it; after seeing the results of films developed in it by a local film processing lab, I ultimately decided in favor of D-76 as my first developer. As for your question about "sudden death," from what I have read I would concur with the other posts on this thread: the main problems with XTOL occur only after it is mixed; it is highly sensitive to the minerals in water, which was one of the reasons I decided against it. A second question is whether or not it is a good developer. This depends in part on what films you are using. I posted a rambling question about XTOL versus D-76 on a different forum which led to a long thread. XTOL seems to prompt almost religious fervor in its advocates and harsh dismissal from its critics. Here is the thread if you are interested: First developer(s) XTOL, D-76 - Photo.net B&W Photo - Film & Processing Forum Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted August 2, 2012 Share #8 Posted August 2, 2012 Xtol will die in the 5L pack after 2 years. It will develop ok for 5days, then go bad. I learned this b/4 the packs were dated. I was on a first name basis with the folks at Kodak. 800 242 2424 from memory. I went back to scratch mixed D76. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_d Posted August 2, 2012 Share #9 Posted August 2, 2012 Hi John, A second question is whether or not it is a good developer. This depends in part on what films you are using. I posted a rambling question about XTOL versus D-76 on a different forum which led to a long thread. XTOL seems to prompt almost religious fervor in its advocates and harsh dismissal from its critics. Here is the thread if you are interested: First developer(s) XTOL, D-76 - Photo.net B&W Photo - Film & Processing Forum Mark I think Xtol is a great developer and I get a slightly higher film speed over D76 but it is a matter of personal preference. I have had it go bad on me in the bottle after it is mixed and have lost one roll due to its "sudden death", I learn quick. Xtol does not turn brown when it oxidizes like D76 so it is impossible to tell if it is bad by looking at it. When Xtol goes bad you get no development at all, hence the "sudden death". If I have Xtol that has been around for a month I always test it by processing a small piece of exposed film before processing a whole roll. The leader tab off a 35mm roll works great for testing. I also will save up my film and process many rolls at a time to use up the freshly mixed developer and to prevent storing mixed chemistry. I reduce my chemistry waste by working in this fashion. This system works for me but may not work for everyone. Here is an informative website on Xtol, Kodak Xtol Developer - Unofficial Resource Page Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted August 3, 2012 Share #10 Posted August 3, 2012 Kodak has told me there is no VALID home test to check activity including yours. I returned to d76 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_d Posted August 3, 2012 Share #11 Posted August 3, 2012 What does Kodak know? If you take a piece of exposed film and process it (develop, stop, fix) and it comes out black, your Xtol is still working. If after you process your piece of film and it comes out clear, your developer is bad. This is not a scientific test but it works and takes ten minutes. If you want to be scientific you can process a B&W control strip, measure the densities with a densitometer and plot them on an H&D curve to see if you are in control. Ilford makes FP4 control strips, http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=57&t=Specialist+Products. For hand processing control strips are a little overboard since there are many variables that come into play but that will definitely tell you how well your developer is working. Or you can use D76 and throw it out when it turns brown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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