Finally, Leica time!

[Willy Fog]

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Hello,

 

I'm new here;) I'm from Spain, but nearly all the time I'm in Saint Petersburg (Russia) or Shanghai (China) I started with the cameras 6 years ago (I'm 27) a few Canon, my last one was 7D and I sold it to buy a Nex7, why? My idea was to buy a Leica from the beginning, but I told to my self, let's wait few years and then go for it. Also I bought the Nex7 cause is smaller, and the most important, I can use Leica lenses with it.

 

I bought this Voigtlander two months ago, but I send it back to the shop, cause have some problems... The didn't have more in stock, bad luck.

 

 

 

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I think the time have arrived, I decided to buy a Leica. Well, not to buy, I'll get it as a present from my wife (I will help her with the €uros) I didn't get anything for my birthday, my name day and I told her that I want nothing for our wedding anniversary neither for Christmas, well for Christmas yes, I want a Leica.

 

I would like to buy one Leica that can stay with me for a really long time. I don't want to buy a model that will make me feel that I made a mistake, that's why I prefer to ask here

 

After many hours in Google and YouTube, I thing the best options will be:

 

M6

M6ttl

M7 (this one maybe will be more expensive that I was expecting to spend, so without a powerful reason (maybe you'lI give me one or many) I prefer the M6)

 

Lenses I've been thinking to buy a 28 or 35, but maybe like I said with the M7, maybe you'll give me a reason to check other lenses like 50mm

 

I will use the camera to take photos of people and some buildings. Let's say that the Leica will be with me in grey cold day in Saint Petersburg walking in the streets taking photos in b&w of houses, people and moments or get lost in the streets of Shanghai and take photos with vivid colors, or take it to one of my trips.

 

So you got an idea of what I want to keep in my album, what I want to see trough the Leica.

 

I hope you can help me to decide.

 

 

Im thinking to expend no more than 1500-1800€. I have no idea where I can buy the camera:( Maybe there is a place where you know I can buy for a good price and trust the seller.

 

I go a lot to Hong Kong, but I think that Hong Kong is not a place to buy a Leica, same as watches, I collect watches (I just stop to collect, time to start with photos) I found the prices higher than Spain for example. But maybe there's a shop that you know where I can go

 

My father-in-law gave my a Zenit11 two days ago. Tomorrow I'll buy my first film and start to enjoy before the Leica arrives. The Light meter in the Zenit is broken, but I got one in my iPhone, I compared the results with my Nex7 and works perfect!

 

 

Thank you very much for time and help

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[k_g_wolf ✝]

Welcome to the forum and enjoy rangefinder-photography.

 

A ZENIT for a start is perfect. But you will enjoy trading up the LEICA- ladder ...

 

 

Best

GEORG

[Willy Fog]

Thank you for your comment.

 

Well, I know that the Zenit it's far from Leica, but to start using some films with different ISO and get some experience, will be perfect (I guess)

 

I can't wait to get my first and only Leica. My wife already told me, if you get the Leica, I'll take the Nex7, hehe.

 

Let's see if someone can help me to decide and tell me where I can buy it.

 

Regards from a spaniard in Russia

[DaveO]

Zeiss Ikon instead of the Zenit if you're interested in a film camera. Bessa if you want cheaper. Ricoh if you want digital that takes M lenses.

[Scarlet]

I hope you can help me to decide.

 

If you wish to start with rangefinder photography, and need a meter, then go with an M6. It is a fantastic camera. Of the three you mention it is the best-priced one, generally speaking, and it offers all you will ever need in a rangefinder. It is a camera you will be able to give to your grandson. Should the battery for the meter die you can still use all shutter times just as if the camera was an M3 or M4. The same is true of the M6TTL but they tend to be quite a bit more expensive than the M6 and offer little difference in handling. The M7, however, only has two working shutter speeds should the battery die. So the M6 really is the way to go if you want to be as close to classic rangefinder photography of the M3 and M4 days.

 

Buy from a reliable dealer which gives you a warranty and sells a camera that has been serviced. Good dealers in Europe are Red Dot, Leicashop, Meister Camera, Photohaus, Aperture UK, Photo Prisma and a host of others. Hong Kong dealers are ridiculously over-priced, notably Arsenal Photo.

 

Then get the same (35mm-equivalent) focal lengths you used with your Canons. Just because you're changing to another system doesn't mean you're seeing the world differently. However, 28 and 35 do seem rather close to each other so you're likely better off picking one of those and a 50. Some people go 35-50, other 28-50, yet other 28-75. Personally I'm 50-90 and shoot on M6 and M4. 35mm has never resonated with me.

 

The Dual Range 50mm Summicron (also see Wiki) is particularly liked for b/w work and has close-up goggles which allow focusing up to 0.478m. It is very sharp and built like a tank. Truly wonderful.

 

The Voigtländer 35 you have/had is a great starting lens for 35mm.

 

A last word of advice - do not develop Gear Acquisition Syndrome (G.A.S.). G.A.S. will tell you to buy the most cutting-edge stuff Leica makes. The cure for this syndrome is to realise that such equipment won't - absolutely positively will not - make you a better photographer. This is the truth.

 

Until you get the gear I have suggested above, go out and shoot with the Zenit.

 

/S

[Willy Fog]

Zeiss Ikon instead of the Zenit if you're interested in a film camera. Bessa if you want cheaper. Ricoh if you want digital that takes M lenses.

 

I already have a Zenit, it's a present and I'll use it.

 

I will not buy other film camera that is not a Leica.

 

I don't want cheaper, I want a Leica.

 

Digital I already have, Nex7.

 

[topoxforddoc]

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The important thing is to buy from someone reputable, if this is going to be your first Leica purchase. If you want a meter, then buy a M6 or a M6TTL.

 

If you are happy using a handheld meter, then buy a M2, M3 or M4 - which depends on the lens focal lengths that you like. If you only ever shoot a 50 or longer, then buy a M3. If you want 35 frame lines, then get a M2. If you want 28 frame lines too, then get a M4.

 

A service for a mechanical Leica would be GBP150-200 or so here in the UK. Budget for that if you are buying, in case it needs work (it may well not need anything). My first Leica was a M6TTL.

 

Good luck

 

Charlie

[pico]

If you want 28 frame lines too, then get a M4.

 

The M4-P has all the frame lines and no meter. I've had one for longer than I can remember and it is smooth and reliable. Have not looked lately, but they were a very good buy at one time.

 

Consider the finder magnification in light of what lenses you might use. The 'universal' finder for film M models (other than the M3) is .72 magnification. I wear glasses and find it adequate, however there are also other magnifications. A .58 magnified viewfinder is great for 35mm and wider (Perfect for 35mm lens for me), and .85 viewfinder might be better for 50mm or longer lenses. (I say 'might' because I have not used one.)

 

In my humble opinion, the early version of the M6 is a bargain today. Just pay attention to the power switch if you want to meter.

 

Regarding models after the early M6, note that the speed dial moves 'backwards' from the earlier ones. I find it absolutely no disadvantage. The M7 is pricey. I have two originals (not updated) and they never let me down, the TTL flash accuracy is surprisingly good with the Leica 24D flash, but I still turn to the M4s for much work, especially in inclement weather.

[Willy Fog]

The important thing is to buy from someone reputable, if this is going to be your first Leica purchase. If you want a meter, then buy a M6 or a M6TTL.

 

If you are happy using a handheld meter, then buy a M2, M3 or M4 - which depends on the lens focal lengths that you like. If you only ever shoot a 50 or longer, then buy a M3. If you want 35 frame lines, then get a M2. If you want 28 frame lines too, then get a M4.

 

A service for a mechanical Leica would be GBP150-200 or so here in the UK. Budget for that if you are buying, in case it needs work (it may well not need anything). My first Leica was a M6TTL.

 

Good luck

 

Charlie

 

Hello Charlie,

 

Thank you very much for your message.

 

Well, i like the M3, that's for sure, but already been thinking for a long time to buy the M6. The reason is the light meter. I think that for a beginner like me, will be more easy to have light meter in the camera. Maybe in the future I will not need it, so maybe I can take the batteries off and that's it or maybe sell it and buy another (that's not what I want to) but I hope that the one I'll buy, will stay forever

 

So maybe the M6 should be my camera. I don't know if M6 or M6 ttl, I think that there is nothing special to make decide for one or to another, or maybe yes, there is a reason and I don't know it.

 

Last thing, let's say that I'll buy a M6, you know which photos I'll like to take, which one do you think is the best (but not expensive) lens that I can get? My idea is to get at the beginning only one lens.

 

 

Thank you for your help

 

Regards

[Willy Fog]

The M4-P has all the frame lines and no meter. I've had one for longer than I can remember and it is smooth and reliable. Have not looked lately, but they were a very good buy at one time.

 

Consider the finder magnification in light of what lenses you might use. The 'universal' finder for film M models (other than the M3) is .72 magnification. I wear glasses and find it adequate, however there are also other magnifications. A .58 magnified viewfinder is great for 35mm and wider (Perfect for 35mm lens for me), and .85 viewfinder might be better for 50mm or longer lenses. (I say 'might' because I have not used one.)

 

In my humble opinion, the early version of the M6 is a bargain today. Just pay attention to the power switch if you want to meter.

 

Regarding models after the early M6, note that the speed dial moves 'backwards' from the earlier ones. I find it absolutely no disadvantage. The M7 is pricey. I have two originals (not updated) and they never let me down, the TTL flash accuracy is surprisingly good with the Leica 24D flash, but I still turn to the M4s for much work, especially in inclement weather.

 

Thank you very much for your message.

 

I will study the M4-P, but as I said, I think that for a beginner (or maybe just for me) I prefer with meter, so the M6 looks like is the ''LEICA'' for me.

 

Regards

[Willy Fog]

Well, I think that 35mm should be my lens, but... which one? Which 35mm lens with a Leica M6 will stay around 1500-1800€uros? (better 1500€)

 

Sorry for my question, maybe stupid questions, but I' very new on this

 

Thanks for your time

[richam]

So maybe the M6 should be my camera. I don't know if M6 or M6 ttl, I think that there is nothing special to make decide for one or to another, or maybe yes, there is a reason and I don't know it.

 

The M6TTL has through the lens flash metering when coupled with a compatible flash unit (making it a couple of mm taller to accommodate the electronics), and one stop more sensitive light meter. As previously noted, the M6TTL shutter dial is larger and turns in the opposite direction of the M6 "classic", MP, and previous models but in the same direction as the M7. None of the feature differences seem worth any extra money for the shooting you describe. But be sure to pay heed to the need for service. The older classic, introduced in 1984, might need it, but the M6TTL, introduced in 1998, may not.

 

The M6TTL was the first M to offer viewfinder magnification choices -- .58 for extensive wide angle use, .85 for extensive telephoto use, as well as the classic .72. If you get an M6TTL, be sure it has the viewfinder magnification you want, which is almost surely the .72.

[richam]

Well, I think that 35mm should be my lens, but... which one? Which 35mm lens with a Leica M6 will stay around 1500-1800€uros? (better 1500€)

 

You might want to check out the f2.8 35mm Summaron. I have one and have used it extensively. It's a great classic Leica lens. There's a good chance you could find an M6 and 35mm Summaron for the price you want.

[Willy Fog]

The M6TTL has through the lens flash metering when coupled with a compatible flash unit (making it a couple of mm taller to accommodate the electronics), and one stop more sensitive light meter. As previously noted, the M6TTL shutter dial is larger and turns in the opposite direction of the M6 "classic", MP, and previous models but in the same direction as the M7. None of the feature differences seem worth any extra money for the shooting you describe. But be sure to pay heed to the need for service. The older classic, introduced in 1984, might need it, but the M6TTL, introduced in 1998, may not.

 

The M6TTL was the first M to offer viewfinder magnification choices -- .58 for extensive wide angle use, .85 for extensive telephoto use, as well as the classic .72. If you get an M6TTL, be sure it has the viewfinder magnification you want, which is almost surely the .72.

 

Hello Richam,

 

Thank you very much for the info.

 

Just know I finish to read the manual of the M6TTL, and yes, I think will be much better for me. After the manual and your message, everything looks more clear. I'll buy the M6TTL. One question, how much will be the difference between M6 and M6TTL body?

 

Maybe I'm confused, but looks like the M6TTL will appear a dot when you do the correct exposure, in the M6 only the two triangles with equal brightness, is that right?

 

And finally, you think I should get the .72 to use and a 35mm lens? Maybe in the future a 28mm and 50mm.

 

Thank you very much for your help

 

Best regards

[Willy Fog]

You might want to check out the f2.8 35mm Summaron. I have one and have used it extensively. It's a great classic Leica lens. There's a good chance you could find an M6 and 35mm Summaron for the price you want.

 

Thank you one more time for the info:D

 

You mean the M6 or M6TTL?

 

Regards

[topoxforddoc]

What's your budget? That will dictate what lens you can buy if you get a M6TTL. Do you shoot in low light or not? If you do, then the minimum you'll need will be F2. 35/2 summicrons are great but not cheap at the moment. The voigtlander 35/1.4 is pretty good and a lot cheaper.

 

Charlie

[Willy Fog]

What's your budget? That will dictate what lens you can buy if you get a M6TTL. Do you shoot in low light or not? If you do, then the minimum you'll need will be F2. 35/2 summicrons are great but not cheap at the moment. The voigtlander 35/1.4 is pretty good and a lot cheaper.

 

Charlie

 

Dear Charlie,

 

If possible, I don't want to spend more than 1500€uros.

 

Well, I like to shoot in all the places, but I can be flexible. If the lens don't allow me to take photos under some circumstances like low light, I will not do it and nothing will happend. I still don't know in which way I want to use the camera, I think the time and after many films, I'll know better.

 

The Voigtlander 35/1.4 looks amazing, that's why I bought it for my Nex7, thinking to use it with my ''future'' Leica. But just made 3 photos with it. As I said, was something wrong with it, so send it back to the shop. In the only place that you can find the Voigtlander in Spain ''new'' they ask for 600euros, that's what I've paid and what I got back.

 

How much will be the difference in €/$ between a M6 and M6TTL?

 

Regards

[topoxforddoc]

The difference between M6 and M6TTL is £100-200. You could get a M6/M6TTL and 35 summicron for maybe £1800. Alternatively a M6/M6TTL plus a Zeiss 35/2.8 or a Voigtlander 35/1.4 or 35/1.2 would come in at your budget. If you want to shoot with a 50, then you will be able to get an older 50 sum micron within your budget. Here are a few example prices at aperture photographic in London

 

Leica Cameras, Leica Lenses - Aperture uk - RATHBONE PLACE, LONDON, W1T 1JE | Tel. 020 7436 1015

 

If you are in Russia, you will be able to subtract 20% VAT from the prices, which makes your budget stretch further.

 

Charlie

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[Willy Fog]

The difference between M6 and M6TTL is £100-200. You could get a M6/M6TTL and 35 summicron for maybe £1800. Alternatively a M6/M6TTL plus a Zeiss 35/2.8 or a Voigtlander 35/1.4 or 35/1.2 would come in at your budget. If you want to shoot with a 50, then you will be able to get an older 50 sum micron within your budget. Here are a few example prices at aperture photographic in London

 

Leica Cameras, Leica Lenses - Aperture uk - RATHBONE PLACE, LONDON, W1T 1JE | Tel. 020 7436 1015

 

If you are in Russia, you will be able to subtract 20% VAT from the prices, which makes your budget stretch further.

 

Charlie

 

Is not a lot of money, and as richam said, better to buy the M6TTL, maybe will not need service

 

I'm in Russia, but I'm from Spain. If you tell me that I can get the 20% buying online and send it to Russia, better no... customs here are really crazy! they don't have a fixed tax, they sometimes charges like crazy. I know that because I collect watches, and it's even better to take a plane to pick up the watch in hands in any place in Europe, than buy it and wait for the decision of customs.

 

I've found some M6TTL .72 around 1000-1200€uros + Voigtlander will make a nice combo and right to the budget, but I think that if I buy a Leica camera, I should buy it with a Leica lens even if I spend a little bit more.

 

But first, I will give me a try with the Zenit 11. Let's see, maybe after few films I feel that this is not for me... but I don't think so, hehehe. I think when you start with film, when you start to feel the magic, you can't stop! I really want to start using my ''future'' Leica. Christmas will be the perfect moment and perfect ocasion to get it

 

Regards

[menos I M6]

Welcome to the forum!

 

My very first Leica has been a M6 classic (I got lucky and found a very late sample, manufactured in 1996). This camera is not only looking as new, but absolutely reliable so far.

 

I strongly prefer the M6 classic over the slightly larger M6TTL, as I also prefer the smaller shutter speed dial and the slightly different meter (mine has the two glowing arrows meter instead of the later three LED meter, which added a dot in the center and removed the beautiful arrow glow).

 

I am in Shanghai and can state, that it would be very hard, to find a nice looking M6 + a fairly fast 35mm lens within your budget at the moment (exchange rate not really helping the matter).

 

There are plenty of shops in Shanghai, where you can buy the gear, but generally one should know, what to look for and be confident in checking the gear out on the spot.

 

Given your general restrictions (1500 EUR and unfortunately not yet decided on preferable focal lengths), I would outline this:

 

- late SN Leica M6 classic

- Canon 35 f2 LTM (it is often referred to as "Japanese Summicron")

- Voigtlander LTM-M adapter 35/135 (or an original Leica adapter, but these are selling more expensive recently)

 

My choice would not be the 35/1.4 Voigtlander as a first lens (personal preference).

 

another very nice lens within 250 − 400 EUR is also:

- Leica 35 mm Summaron f3.5 LTM

 

If you could find interest for a 50mm lens, to start with your M6, the choices are much bigger within the budget.

 

If constrained to a budget this small, I would either rethink, to look for a nice, freshly overhauled Leica M4 and pair it with a lens of preference or would tend to buy second hand from reputable sellers on one of the forums.

 

If you are in Shanghai, PM me ;-)