M9reno Posted July 11, 2012 Share #41 Â Posted July 11, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Accept reality. Â The only thing that seems to be inevitably obsolete is a sense of politeness and humility, particularly in this forum. Film has already outlasted it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Hi M9reno, Take a look here Irritation. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 11, 2012 Share #42 Â Posted July 11, 2012 Reality... Â Turn It Up: Vinyl revival: How a dead format came back for another spin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted July 11, 2012 Share #43 Â Posted July 11, 2012 I have news for you, your Leica M9 camera IS already a computer, and it already makes thousands of decisions for you every time you press the shutter. And if you can't use a computer, it is virtually impossible to view or post process your images. Â The Optical Rangefinder is what makes it a "M", the rest is immaterial and stays nicely out of the way. I have no problems with computers, just when I am shooting, I don't want them in my way. Â P.S. Do you enjoy stating the obvious? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted July 11, 2012 Share #44  Posted July 11, 2012 Reality... Turn It Up: Vinyl revival: How a dead format came back for another spin  This is interesting. Today I was traveling around China, in one of the old towns. In other words tourist traps. But anyway I found a shop that was fascinating. You bring in your MP3's and they press you a record... Yes, a Vinyl 33 rpm record... Interesting... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 11, 2012 Share #45 Â Posted July 11, 2012 "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." -- John Lennon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm23221 Posted July 11, 2012 Share #46 Â Posted July 11, 2012 I'd like to see better photos rather than better cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 11, 2012 Share #47  Posted July 11, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Quill Pens & Stationery - Goose Feather Quill Pen  Umm, yeah. Are you sure you want to associate film with something you order from a historical museum?  On the original post:  I don't get it. Were M3 users irritated by the arrival of the M2? Or M3/M2 users irritated by the arrival of the M4? Were Kodachrome users irritated by the arrival (on these shores) of Fujichrome? Or Tri-X users by the arrival of HP3/4/5? Or TMax 400?  Something new comes along - you have a free choice whether to adopt it or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 11, 2012 Share #48 Â Posted July 11, 2012 The only thing that seems to be inevitably obsolete is a sense of politeness and humility, particularly in this forum. Film has already outlasted it. Â Reminds me of the line from Harry S. Truman: "I don't give 'em Hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's Hell." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 11, 2012 Share #49 Â Posted July 11, 2012 Umm, yeah. Are you sure you want to associate film with something you order from a historical museum? Â Not at all, the point I was trying to make (badly), is that film will be around a long time after all the naysayers have pronounced it obsolete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil U Posted July 11, 2012 Share #50 Â Posted July 11, 2012 and to be fair, you can buy your quill pens from amazon and many other places. the point made by Steve is a good one IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 11, 2012 Share #51 Â Posted July 11, 2012 and to be fair, you can buy your quill pens from amazon and many other places. the point made by Steve is a good one IMHO. Â I don't disagree with the gist of the point but I'm not sure quill pens are the best example. Presumably you or I could start selling quill pens off of eBay this week if we could find a reliable supply of suitable goose feathers but we'd struggle to manufacture even the most simple B&W film. That said, "accept reality" and "a major sea change is almost complete" is IMO simply bollocks. I suspect that film will be manufactured and sold long after the last digital camera sees the light of day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted July 11, 2012 Share #52 Â Posted July 11, 2012 Well, I think we can all agree that the 8-track tape and Film Disc are not coming back. Â I did get a USB Turntable. I have too many out-of-print Records that I want longterm access to. we used to call it "Listening to a record". Somehow, "Access" seems more fitting in the digital age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 11, 2012 Share #53  Posted July 11, 2012 Well, I think we can all agree that the 8-track tape and Film Disc are not coming back  New !! 8 track Portable 8 Track Player With AM/FM Radio | eBay  http://8tracksrback.ecrater.com/c/795718/8-track-tapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted July 11, 2012 Share #54 Â Posted July 11, 2012 Alright! Â It's going to be Small Faces and Itchycoo Park for me! Â How about my Kodak Disc camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 11, 2012 Share #55 Â Posted July 11, 2012 How about my Kodak Disc camera? Â Available on eBay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted July 11, 2012 Share #56 Â Posted July 11, 2012 As far as other cameras taking better pictures. It's Like saying a computer is better than a slide rule. With a slide rule you can see all possible solutions, with a computer you only see one. The reason I went with the M is I wanted control of my photos, and not turn it over to a computer. I have been down that path, not again. Spending time navigating menus to disable feature... Argh! Â I think you missed Steve's point (see his quote below.) You prefer a slide rule only because you know how to use one. A computer is actually better and much simpler than a slide rule if you don't know how to properly use a slide rule. Â The minimalism of the M9 is illusory, it may provide a simple box for recording an image but the complications come with the image making, getting correct focus, correct colour balance, refining exposure for a good dynamic range, not to mention the obsessions over what lens to use. It is complicated to use well, and easy to use badly. Â This of course has always been the case in 'traditional' photography. But now almost any camera can make a better auto exposure than an M9, give fast and accurate auto focus, and provide a better auto colour balance. That is a simple minimal camera. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haroldp Posted July 11, 2012 Share #57 Â Posted July 11, 2012 Look at what the MM with the new AA 50 produced in Berlin. Â Nikon 800 with 36MP owners are having trouble getting in focus images without tripod. That sounds like a drag. Â I believe a sharper lens will produce a greater improvement at 18 mpx than more sensor resolution with a lesser lens. Â However if one already has the sharpest lens (true of my Nikon collection), then upgrading the sensor is the next step. Â I am not convinced that the M9 fully resolves what my Summilux and Summicrons are capable of, particularly stopped down 1 or 2 stops. Â Unless something is out of alignment, focus on a D800 is exactly the same as focus on a D700. Â The only possible difference is that a very slight out of focus ( or movement ) condition may not be resolved by the 12 mpx D700 but will be by the 36 mpx D800. Â In these cases, the D800 is in no case worse than the 700, but may present a range of improvement which is not fully realized except with the best technique. Â On my D3x I thought the Nikon 24-120 f4 at f5.6 was as sharp as the 24-70 f2.8 (at f5.6). Â On my D800e, I see that it is not. The 24-120 is just as sharp on the D800e as on the D3x, but the 3x could not resolve the additional acuity of the 24-70. Â It may be the lack of AA filter as much as the extra pixels. Â I have not yet tried other lenses, am eager to see what the 24/f1.4 can do on the 800e. Â regards ... H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted July 11, 2012 Share #58  Posted July 11, 2012 I know "artist" photographers here in NYC using obsolete processes such as tintypes and ambrotypes, or salt prints. There used to be a vibrant market for the plates and chemistry for this type of photographic material, but not anymore. You can no longer say it "exists" as a commercial entity.  Still alive and well and have been since the very beginning:  Bostick & Sullivan - Supplies For Platinum, Palladium and Alternative Photographic Processes  Photographers' Formulary Inc.  Artcraft Chemicals - Buy Silver Nitrate, Potassium Iodide, and 1000s of other chemicals | Bulk Chemical Orders welcomed!  ars-imago international s.r.l. - committed to photography  And there are many more than just that selection. We contract out with several for available classroom materials. Every other year or so we offer an 'alternative methods' class because of student demand. They're very interested in all possibilities for producing their own individual work.     Oh and by the way, there are literally hundreds of these companies out there, too. Those same students are in to them also. It seems like the latest generation are becoming more and more reluctant to just jump on any current bandwagon.  Vinyl Records Manufacturing – Vinyl Records UK – The Vinyl Factory – Music Is Art  Record Pressing - Audiophile VIrgin Vinyl Pressing.  United Record Pressing - Pressing nothing but vinyl records for over 60 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted July 12, 2012 Share #59 Â Posted July 12, 2012 This is interesting. Today I was traveling around China, in one of the old towns. In other words tourist traps. But anyway I found a shop that was fascinating. You bring in your MP3's and they press you a record... Yes, a Vinyl 33 rpm record... Interesting... It must have been a late night. For a minute I thought that they would press an M3 into a flat disk, like a record. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted July 12, 2012 Share #60 Â Posted July 12, 2012 I think you missed Steve's point (see his quote below.) You prefer a slide rule only because you know how to use one. A computer is actually better and much simpler than a slide rule if you don't know how to properly use a slide rule. Â Tell that to my mother, who can't use either... Â Sorry, but you missed my point. The Leica "M" is a Manual camera... There is nothing wrong with it's exposure method, if you know how to use it. Hence my slide rule comparison. Â If you want auto: auto focus, auto exposure, auto clemenger etc. There are many, many better cameras to use. Â An example of a photographic slide rule. I have two light meters.One Fancy Sekonic 758 and a Gausen Digi-Toy. The Sekonic is digital, it tells me exactly the exposure I need for a given f stop, speed. The Gausen gives a digital readout in EV values only, and I adjust the slide rule to that value. It then shows me all possible correct exposures for all speeds and f stops. I find the slide rule reading much better, because I can choose to compromise in what ever direction I wish, simply by looking at the slide rule. Not adjusting the thumbwheel to change the settings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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