75mm Summilux, Summarit and Summicrons

[01af]

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The locking hood on the Summicron 75 is flawless for me ...

Umm. So you think the purpose of a lens hood is to slide smoothly and to lock securely?

[lct]

As several Leica ones (50/2, 50/1,4, 90/2.8, 90/2...) the built-in hood of the Summicron 75 is not much effective, to say the least, but it has the merit of existing and does not prevent one from using an accessory hood if need be. I don't find the room taken by the 35/2.5 hood quite handy in my small bags so i end up keeping it in a drawer and using a rubber hood instead. YMMV.

[Paul J]

Thanks so much for your input everyone.

 

While I'm happy with my Summilux I don't feel it's as sharp as what the APO will be. I love it's colour, contrast and tonality though. It's a very nice lens that I don't want to let go. I've not been able to compare it with an APO but I feel I get more from my 35mm Summliux FLE and Noctilux 0.95 in that regard at all apertures. I would just like to be able to have a super sharp option in this focal length too I suppose.

 

It seems the best balance between sharpness and contrast is the summicron. But I guess I'm hoping someone would talk me out of it and tell me the summilux is AS sharp. I don't think it is though. As always it comes down to taste but it's hard to say since I've not tried them all.

[lct]

I have no experience with the 75/1.4 but i would not buy it for sharpness at medium or slow apertures. It is a lens made to be used at fast apertures where it shows some unique rendition.

According to J-M Sepulchre, both 75/1.4 and 75/2 are very close at f/2. At f/2.8 and on the 75/2 is sharper in the center. The 75/1.4 being sharper on edges and corners.

The relative softness of the 75/1.4 in the center would be due to focus shift on the two samples tested.

[Paul J]

Thanks, that book sounds like a good read.

 

I didn't buy it for it's sharpness at all. Indeed bought it for it's unique characteristics which I love. Hence the want for a sharper option too and the reason for the thread. I didn't think I'd use this focal length as much as I have been though so am interested in sharper options. Another tool for the tool box so to speak.

 

I'm happy with the sharpness at 1.4. It seems a bit softer than my Noctilux at 1.4 but not by a large amount. Perhaps it's more the glow is more apparent in the 75. What I want a new lens for is f8 IQ.

[lct]

If i had the 75/1.4, i would choose the Summarit then. At f/8, it is as sharp as the 75/2 in the center but slightly sharper than the latter on edges and corners. Again according to Sepulchre as my own experience is limited to the 75/2.

[darylgo]

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The built in hoods are less effective once a filter is attached. On my M9 I use the UV/IR filter on 50's and above, otherwise the greens in California shrubs that cover much of the landscape is polluted with IR and the greens look sick. The filter makes my built in hood on the 75 Summicron very short and given the high flare potential of this lens I am looking into using an external hood. Unfortunately there is no perfect hood, all have their advantages and disadvantages.

[sdk]

I have never had flare issues with my 75mm/2, but I rarely use a filter. It is a great lens at close focus for intimate landscapes.

[algrove]

Anyone have some personal comparisons between any Leica 75 and the Voigtlander Heilar 75/1.8? The price at $760 breaks no bank.

[algrove]

The built in hoods are less effective once a filter is attached. On my M9 I use the UV/IR filter on 50's and above, otherwise the greens in California shrubs that cover much of the landscape is polluted with IR and the greens look sick. The filter makes my built in hood on the 75 Summicron very short and given the high flare potential of this lens I am looking into using an external hood. Unfortunately there is no perfect hood, all have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

Hey Daryl- I got a Heliopan Rubber 49mm lens hood from B&H. I just screw it directly into my UVa filter. The number on the box is 71049H. Might be worth a try since it extends about 1 1/8 inch from the filter outward.

[IkarusJohn]

Hi Paul,

 

I had the Summicron 75, and switched it for the Summilux.

 

The Summicron is exceptionally sharp (except wide open at its shortest focusing distance, not surprisingly), and as others have said, produces lovely images. It's compact (compared to the Summilux), but quite heavy.

 

However, I found it a beast to focus (even compared to the Noctilux, wide open). It's based on the 50 Summilux ASPH, apparently - so think brutal focus, with a shallower depth of field due to the longer focal length, and a short focus throw. The unforgiving focus dented my confidence in the end, so I got rid of it. The longer throw on the Summilux is easier, I find. There is discussion of flare with the Summicron, which also can't be ignored.

 

Interestingly, the Leica Pocket Book comments that both lenses reach optimum at f/5.6, and the Summilux is very sharp at that point in my experience - well, sharp enough for me, I guess.

 

What would I do in your shoes?

 

I prefer 75mm over 90mm - can't tell you why. I have always had that mid-range prime in my bag. I also find I like combinations - 50mm & 28mm; 75mm & 35mm; adding the 21mm if I want a three lens choice. Also, all my lenses were ASPH, and I wanted something a bit different, so the Mandler 75 Summilux appealed. If I want tack sharp, I'll use one of my 50s and crop. For portraits, the Summilux is better ...

 

I hope this helps. I do have mixed feelings about having sold my Summicron, but then with the choice of a 50 Summilux and a 75 Summillux, I get over it. That choice covers sharp as you'd like, and the softer (wide open) look which goes with portraiture.

 

Cheers

John

[darylgo]

However, I found it a beast to focus (even compared to the Noctilux, wide open). It's based on the 50 Summilux ASPH, apparently - so think brutal focus, with a shallower depth of field due to the longer focal length, and a short focus throw. The unforgiving focus dented my confidence in the end, so I got rid of it. The longer throw on the Summilux is easier, I find.

 

John, well stated. I had the same issues with my 75/2, difficulty with portraits focus and I became frustrated determining it's cause, otoh the Summilux despite (my copy) backfocusing has a very high success rate. Now I know why.

 

The 75/2 has compelling specs and technicals, I am a sucker for an Apo lens, an Apo and Asph is a must have, the mtf curves seal the deal. The Summilux compels with it's beautiful rendering, advantage Summilux.

[Paul J]

Hi Paul,

 

I had the Summicron 75, and switched it for the Summilux.

 

The Summicron is exceptionally sharp (except wide open at its shortest focusing distance, not surprisingly), and as others have said, produces lovely images. It's compact (compared to the Summilux), but quite heavy.

 

However, I found it a beast to focus (even compared to the Noctilux, wide open). It's based on the 50 Summilux ASPH, apparently - so think brutal focus, with a shallower depth of field due to the longer focal length, and a short focus throw. The unforgiving focus dented my confidence in the end, so I got rid of it. The longer throw on the Summilux is easier, I find. There is discussion of flare with the Summicron, which also can't be ignored.

 

Interestingly, the Leica Pocket Book comments that both lenses reach optimum at f/5.6, and the Summilux is very sharp at that point in my experience - well, sharp enough for me, I guess.

 

What would I do in your shoes?

 

I prefer 75mm over 90mm - can't tell you why. I have always had that mid-range prime in my bag. I also find I like combinations - 50mm & 28mm; 75mm & 35mm; adding the 21mm if I want a three lens choice. Also, all my lenses were ASPH, and I wanted something a bit different, so the Mandler 75 Summilux appealed. If I want tack sharp, I'll use one of my 50s and crop. For portraits, the Summilux is better ...

 

I hope this helps. I do have mixed feelings about having sold my Summicron, but then with the choice of a 50 Summilux and a 75 Summillux, I get over it. That choice covers sharp as you'd like, and the softer (wide open) look which goes with portraiture.

 

Cheers

John

 

Hi John,

 

I really am very happy with my Summilux and you've made some good points about the Cron. I did notice in store when I tried it how twitchy the short focus throw was. I think I have come full circle now and will flip for the new 50 Cron and crop where needed for now as the results really look like next level stuff.

 

This picture of Brett's gives a good idea and really, it's what I'm chasing in terms of detail.

 

All sizes | Happy Chap | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[Paul J]

I am a sucker for an Apo lens, an Apo and Asph is a must have

 

+1

[Prosophos]

When I wrote about my 75mm Summarit , I did an un-scientific, one-image comparison between it and my 75mm Summilux (it's somewhere in this link):

 

The Leica 75mm Summarit f/2.5.

 

The Summarit definitely gives a more modern (read: slightly sharper, definitely more contrasty) look. The 75 'lux is -- in many ways -- technically less able (though not by much), but I would have a difficult time parting with it. IMHO, it's the perfect portrait lens and it's the only 75 that shoots at f/1.4 .

 

Have a look at some samples from each:

 

All of my 75mm Summarit images are here:

Leica 75mm Summarit f/2.5

 

All of my 75mm Summilux images are here:

Leica 75mm Summilux (Canada) f/1.4

 

I've never had the pleasure of using the 75 'cron, but in some ways it represents a combination of the above two... a great lens, with a nice combination of size, speed, and IQ.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Peter.

[La Morte]

I have the Summarit and Summilux 50 mm.

Both are very good in there own way.

After getting the Summilux I have not used the Summarit again.

Here are two links for shoots I have done with both;

Summarit

Streamlight Photography: M9 does the Two Oceans Marathon... part 1...

 

Summilux

Streamlight Photography: Young Community Shaper finalist 2012 - Themba...

The Lux is much "tighter" on the focus ring.

I love both but at this stage the Bokeh from the Lux is like nothing on earth. I just finnished a book on a project and I did the whole thing with the Lux,- images that just blow your mind!

[darylgo]

The booklet (instructions) that comes with the 75mm Summarit says: "Four of the elements consist of glass with anomalous partial dispersion, and two of these are also highly refractive."

 

Despite Leica producing what it admits is a lower cost lens they have hardly skimped on the glass. While not labeled as an Apo isn't anomalous dispersion somewhat akin to apochromatic properties in that it reduces the dispersion? If this is correct is there a reason they have not labeled it as an Apochromat?

 

In another camera system it's qualities would be sought after and it's reputation high. That it is available and not as highly regarded (as other Leica lens) is both undeserved and a testament to the high standards of Leica.

[akiralx]

Anyone have some personal comparisons between any Leica 75 and the Voigtlander Heilar 75/1.8? The price at $760 breaks no bank.

 

No, but I recall in a forum discussion concerning the merits of the 75 Summarit and 75 CV f/2.5, a few users who had shot both found the CV clearly inferior, though that may have been caused by sample variation.

[lars_bergquist]

[*…*]Despite Leica producing what it admits is a lower cost lens they have hardly skimped on the glass. While not labeled as an Apo isn't anomalous dispersion somewhat akin to apochromatic properties in that it reduces the dispersion? If this is correct is there a reason they have not labeled it as an Apochromat?[ … ]

 

Glasses with anomalous dispersion are necessary in the design of apochromatic photo lenses with a wide apochromatic field (small-field apo microscope lenses were built without them already in the 1890's, based on the researches of Ernst Abbe, the residing genius at Zeiss). But Leica use them widely in all lenses where a high level of colour correction, though not full apochromaticity, is desirable. Fore example, Leica technical descriptions say that these glasses were used in the current 21mm Summilux, 21mm Super-Elmar, 24mm Summilux, 24mm Elmar and 50mm Summilux lenses, none of which carry the 'apo' designation.

 

There is no ISO standard that defines what 'apo' means. Every manufacturer has his own standards, mostly not made public. Leica's standards are more stringent than most.

 

And you are right, of course: The Summarit lenses are lenses that any other manufacturer would be proud to possess.

 

The old man from the Apo-Kodachrome Age

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[lct]

[…]Leica use them widely in all lenses where a high level of colour correction, though not full apochromaticity, is desirable.[…]

What do you mean by full apochromaticity? Just curious.