brianv Posted June 17, 2012 Share #41 Posted June 17, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've used an Olympus EP-2 with VF-2 for over two years now. The technology needs to improve with respect to time lag, resolution, color rendition, and dynamic range before it can start to compete with an optical viewinder- direct or reflex. If the M10 focuses like a NEX-7, it's not for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Hi brianv, Take a look here If the M10 were to focus like the NEX-7. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Sp12 Posted June 18, 2012 Share #42 Posted June 18, 2012 The optomechanical rangefinder does still hold an advantage in the precision of focusing. The old man from the Kodachrome Age You can't even focus the 135/3.4, 75/1.4 or 50/1.1 (or faster) with 80% accuracy (and that's assuming generous CoC calculations) assuming perfect calibration and 20/20 vision with the M9. And you can't focus off center. Live view gets you pixel perfect results. As I get older and older, print larger and larger, and Moore's law marches on and on, an EVF sounds like an increasingly attractive option. I would love to see NEX-7 focusing as an option on the M10 in live view, but as an M it better have my antiquated rangefinder No one said I can't have both a rangefinder and an EVF on the same camera. Even without an EVF live view is a must for any future camera purchase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 18, 2012 Share #43 Posted June 18, 2012 You can't even focus the 135/3.4, 75/1.4 or 50/1.1 (or faster) with 80% accuracy (and that's assuming generous CoC calculations) assuming perfect calibration and 20/20 vision with the M9.... For classical CoC values (0.03mm) both 50/1 (even 50/0.95) and 75/1.4 are within the accuracy range of the M9 rangefinder. So is the 135/3.4 with a 1.25x magnifier on. You're mistaking the M9 for the M8 i guess. Which would be still faulty for the Noctiluxes 50 with respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe S Posted June 18, 2012 Share #44 Posted June 18, 2012 Not only is the focusing superior with an EVF with magnification and peaking but the framing with longer lenses is far superior to the inaccurate brightlines "guess framing". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 18, 2012 Share #45 Posted June 18, 2012 Superior in speed and in low light? Nothing beats a good RF for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted June 19, 2012 Share #46 Posted June 19, 2012 Superior in speed and in low light? Nothing beats a good RF for that. It depends on the focal length, I'd say. For focusing the Apo Summicron I prefer the NEX 7 over the M9, the excellent focus peaking make it easier and faster. For wides, I'm faster with the RF and prefer it up to the 50mm focal length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 19, 2012 Share #47 Posted June 19, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Which Apo Summicron if i may ask? Not the 50 i guess. 75 or 90? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted June 19, 2012 Share #48 Posted June 19, 2012 Which Apo Summicron if i may ask? Not the 50 i guess. 75 or 90? The Apo Summicron 90. You are right, now that we have a couple of Apos' it's better to be more specific. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 21, 2012 Share #49 Posted June 21, 2012 Not only is the focusing superior with an EVF with magnification and peaking but the framing with longer lenses is far superior to the inaccurate brightlines "guess framing". Just curious, how do you frame accurately when the image is magnified 10X? I think I know the answer you would give: You push a button and zappo -10x magnification then, you push the button again and zappo - you are back to full frame. I simply focus my M and zappo - push the shutter! I'm not sure what is "superior" about the focus on an EVF with magnification and peaking? The arc angle that vernier alignment focusing can subtend when connected to a human brain is cortical-magic as far as I'm concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted June 25, 2012 Share #50 Posted June 25, 2012 Not only is the focusing superior with an EVF with magnification and peaking but the framing with longer lenses is far superior to the inaccurate brightlines "guess framing". Not for me ... And I own both an M9 and a NEX 7. Although I like the focus peaking on the NEX7, for me, nothing beats the rangefinder for speed, accuracy and simplicity in using manual focus. I virtually never use the magnification focus on the NEX 7, it is an added, unnecessary step. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlorianM Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share #51 Posted July 9, 2012 In case somebody is still following this thread: After getting some stick time on a friend's NEX-7 I came to the conclusion that evf focusing is probably at least a generation away from equalling the Leica RF in ease of use and overall finder image quality. Live view on the rear LCD could be very useful OTOH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 9, 2012 Share #52 Posted July 9, 2012 Live view on the rear LCD could be very useful OTOH. Would this not still necessitate the 'zombie pose' for shooting, same as for mobile phone cams? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlorianM Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share #53 Posted July 10, 2012 Would this not still necessitate the 'zombie pose' for shooting, same as for mobile phone cams? Why yes, yes it would, lol. I think I would still prefer that to carrying, mounting and generally having to look after an external vf for use with a WA the other advantage is the accurate framing of my dslr, which I frequently miss..... Anyway its all a wash now. We'll all find out in a couple of months just what the MX will/will not have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanzlr Posted July 10, 2012 Share #54 Posted July 10, 2012 focus peaking only works good with lenses with limited DoF. If you use a 28/2.8 on a NEX and set it to f4, focus peaking shimmers all over the place, no chance to tell where the EXACT point of focus is. The GXR Mode2 works much better, but still it works best if you open up the lens aperture. I almost never use the GXR with wides, except for landscapes, where I have time top open the aperture, zoom in, focus, stop down, shoot. For social stuff I mostly use a 40/2 and try to keep it at f4 or faster, for easier focusing. During my Iceland vacation, I used the GXR mostly with teles to shoot Puffins and other birds. Everything else was done with a rangefinder, as it was simply much easier to nail focus in dynamic situations. so no, I would not buy an M10 without an RF...whats the point? The GXR is good enough image quality wise, and with a 15mm Heliar, you have a compact, AA-filterless, superbly usable wide setup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 10, 2012 Share #55 Posted July 10, 2012 The point is some people here and elsewhere are claiming that focusing Nex and other mirrorless cameras is as fast and accurate with wides as with ridiculously outdated rangefinders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFNewcomer Posted July 10, 2012 Share #56 Posted July 10, 2012 Although still basically stuck in the film age (M7, R9, Nikon F5), I recently acquired a NEX-7, primarily for the versatility its E-mount offers in terms of using 'legacy' glass, the EVF, and its high ISO potential compared to film. I've been using the NEX with my M lenses so far and got some good results. Focus peaking is a very handy feature and enables you to get sharp pictures and precise focus. Personally, I can't be bothered with the magnification option. Compared to the quality of the viewfinder of both the M7 and R9, though, the Sony's EVF comes a distant third, even though it does get the job done and is much preferable to using the screen on the back for taking photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 10, 2012 Share #57 Posted July 10, 2012 A M9-type of mechanical/optical RF - plus an optional electronic RF - would be fantastic, allowing for macro and tele and, not to be forgotten, the gorgeous R-optics. I have and enjoy the Visoflex on the M9 for macro work, but I miss the flexibility of macro and tele on e.g. Ricoh GXR. Me thinks. Interesting opportunities and times! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanzlr Posted July 10, 2012 Share #58 Posted July 10, 2012 magnification is not well implemented on the NEX, as it is a toggle option. with the GXR, I have one button set up to toggle zoom, but a half-press of the shutter button also takes you out of zoom (to compose, mostly), releasing the shutter button will put you back into full zoom. works wonders for focus + recompose. still, you always focus with the aperture set on the lens on all these solutions. Not ideal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe S Posted July 11, 2012 Share #59 Posted July 11, 2012 The point is some people here and elsewhere are claiming that focusing Nex and other mirrorless cameras is as fast and accurate with wides as with ridiculously outdated rangefinders. I find that my uncoupled 15mm Voigtlander scale focuses exactly the same on my NEX 7 as it does on my M8. The framing is much better on the NEX. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe S Posted July 11, 2012 Share #60 Posted July 11, 2012 magnification is not well implemented on the NEX, as it is a toggle option.with the GXR, I have one button set up to toggle zoom, but a half-press of the shutter button also takes you out of zoom (to compose, mostly), releasing the shutter button will put you back into full zoom. works wonders for focus + recompose. still, you always focus with the aperture set on the lens on all these solutions. Not ideal. If you move the magnification to the AF/MF button it is a one touch operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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