ho_co Posted March 8, 2007 Share #21  Posted March 8, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) However a statement such as similar results from the M8 as you would see from 4x5 needs to be taken with a grain of salt, in fact I don't accept claims like the same as med. format. Manfred-- We all agree. But read the thread Carsten refers to. It is a set of revelations.  http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/9022-30-x-40-inch-m8-prints.html  --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 Hi ho_co, Take a look here Impressing a nikon man!-take 2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted March 8, 2007 Share #22 Â Posted March 8, 2007 ... an apt description:rolleyes: Your problem is that the sunsets are digitized, contrary to the natural order of things:p Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 8, 2007 Share #23 Â Posted March 8, 2007 imants, out of curiousity (not that I think it is my greatest shot ever, but I do like it), if you are in the mood for a little critique (is the pope catholic?), open up both barrels and level your turret at my bahnhof picture, please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 8, 2007 Share #24 Â Posted March 8, 2007 I think irrelevent, poorly conceived and executed photographs weaken the forum. Good photographs, and links to good appropriate digital 'M' photography strengthens the forum No, no, no. The participants _are_ the forum. With people of varying ability there should be a place for everyone. What is the alternative? Having a panel of the great and the good reviewing submissions before they're shown? Â Almost all of us were poor photographers when we started. Constructive criticism can help improve someone's standard and in the end encourage them in the hobby. I'd suggest that what you propose would have quite the opposite effect. Â What would weaken the forum IMHO is preventing people from expressing themselves. Yes there are sometimes too many 'great shot', or 'great capture', but if you disagee with another person's posting say so, and more to the point say why. Most of us here can take it on the chin. Dialogue is good! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted March 8, 2007 Share #25  Posted March 8, 2007 Steven--  Well said. I couldn't agree more with your perspective on this.  And by the way, since I don't get to play a lot in the pix I take for $$, I often post stuff here I wouldn't think of selling, to illustrate a capture point or a point of post-process or whatever.  That's the difference between the (mostly ordinary) shots here and some of the extraordinary ones in the photo forum (though even there, I like to look at all kinds of stuff. The bad stuff--however you view that--is hidden by a mouse-click anyway.  In both Carsten's and Michael's shots I see a couple points of technical interest; mainly the handling of extremely bright extremely saturated colours by the M8. It's very good, obviously; compared with some digicams out there, where you would get truly horrible results, the M8 really shines.  And Micahel's story of impressing a photographer with the *RAW file and print* is nothing like looking at a Web jpeg of said image. I bet you could open up the first shot by 2 stops or more in post and get fabulous printable results.  That the actual print isn't to everyone's taste is, well, a matter of taste. Chacun à son goût, after all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 8, 2007 Share #26 Â Posted March 8, 2007 I must be nuts. Â Â Motto of the day: Â Constructive Critcism is only good if the partcipant learns from it otherwise it is just critcism. Â And you can quote me. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 8, 2007 Share #27 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I understand what you are saying Guy, but all we can do is do what we can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianpe Posted March 8, 2007 Share #28 Â Posted March 8, 2007 I have seen fantastic shots taken when the worst of cell phone cameras. Artists tend to play to the strengths of the tool they're using, which makes even technically inferrior tools look great. Â To me, what is good about these photos is that when printed the output was impressive to someone who knows photography. That tells me that he judged the technical merits of what the camera produced, and probably wasn't swayed emotionally by the composition of the images. Â I don't know if Michael knew what he was getting into, but I hope he doesn't take offense. One of the reasons I lurk in these forums is to learn from great photographers. Part of that is taking criticism for my own images, and I welcome all of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 8, 2007 Share #29 Â Posted March 8, 2007 I understand what you are saying Guy, but all we can do is do what we can. Â Totally agree with your comments Steven , we all started somewhere and it is nice to listen to others and try to learn from them. Is this not what photography is all about is the constant learning and evolving until you hang up the straps. I know for me it is , I learn everyday and when i stop i better be dead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted March 8, 2007 Share #30  Posted March 8, 2007 Steve - On this we agree. Where we seem to disagree is what effect publishing very poor work has on the integrity of this forum; I think irrelevent, poorly conceived and executed photographs weaken the forum. Good photographs, and links to good appropriate digital 'M' photography strengthens the forum. Proclaiming that something is good [as often happens when weak photographs are published here] when it clearly isn't merely encourages more of the same. I would prefer that such images were elsewhere. ..............................Chris  Chris,  Be careful what you wish for, or you could become the victim of your own rules. People participate in the forum to learn and trade information about Leica cameras and photos taken with them. I'd prefer that the moderators decide what's acceptable in that regard. It's easy to ignore posts that you don't like. That's my opinion.  Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted March 8, 2007 Share #31  Posted March 8, 2007 Techically the image does not show anything different that any good digital camera can do.I am sure it was a nice time of the day but that does not automatically translate into a good shot. The process.. I like that.... then poin.....t sorta compose..... and click, rarely creates good results  Maybe the moral of the story is    Some Nikon men will be impressed with any image as long as they are being paid to print Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 8, 2007 Share #32 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Is this not what photography is all about is the constant learning and evolving until you hang up the straps. I know for me it is , I learn everyday and when i stop i better be dead. Â I was going to write something similar. The old saw about "the more you know, the more you realise how little you know" holds very true. Only a fool would say they have nothing left to learn IMHO - and that doesn't just apply to photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted March 8, 2007 Share #33 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Helios refused to go digital last I heard, so it's no sunsets for him....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 8, 2007 Share #34 Â Posted March 8, 2007 For better or for worse, this forum is all about the cameras (for me at least), not the images. Â I'm afraid I strongly disagree with that sentiment. The camera is simply a tool, a means to an end. It is ALL about images here, in my opinion. That's why we spend outrageous sums on Leica cameras and lenses. If we were willing to settle for inferior image quality, we'd be buying something far less expensive. Â There is also, I'm sorry to say, a good deal of truth to some of the things Chris wrote. It is true we are all of different skill levels here, but I do think most of us are sophisticated enough to know a good photograph from a bad one and very often images are posted here with no filtering whatsoever. I'm not going to mention names, but just a few days ago someone who I would expect a lot more from posted a couple of absolutely dreadful shots in which the central characters were completely out of focus, the images were badly tilted and the action was entirely missed. Sure enough, the first comment posted was, "Great shots, _____." I would appreciate being able to tell, as a rule, that someone posting images here was at least trying. Â The unfortunate truth of the matter is that Leica is a status symbol and a lot of people hang an M around their neck like jewelry just to show they can afford the best. Now, that's fine because it keeps the company going, but if one is going to post images taken with these expensive necklaces there should be a bit more thought about how well those images are going to reflect on this forum. And when someone posts bad shots which demonstrate no attempt at all to use these wonderful tools to their full potential, it should not be encouraged by heaps of praise. Â By the way, Carsten--I think your shot is outstanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 8, 2007 Share #35 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Brent, I think it's about both the equipment and the photographs. Truth be told I think it's easier for many of us - and I include myself here - to talk about equipment, the language skills and analysis are generally easier than those needed when discussing photographs. Â My particular bete noir is having a subject line that summarises the equipment not the image. I'm not keen on titles anyway, but unless the photographer is attempting to illustrate a particular facet of the equipment I don't see the point - and remember this is just _my_ opinion, other views are allowed :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 8, 2007 Share #36 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Just my two cents to counter the critique of having the person in the middle of the picture. I agree in most cases but not in the case of this picture. The person in the center of the photo adds to the serenity of this shot and the clouds and sand are enough to not make this composition boring. I personally would like to see a crop that eliminates the grass in the lower third, but I think even as it is, this is a nice photograph. Sometimes the things "Photography 101" tells us not to do work really well, so why not be a little flexible with the "rules" and call them "very general guidelines?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomy20 Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share #37  Posted March 8, 2007 wow.  I have opened a can of worms.  Firstly, i always aim to learn on a daily basis, and i have learnt plenty here-especially the vitriol possible via the web....imagine being someone who had murdered! All i did was post a thread on a page inhabited by what seems to be a lot of very serious people.  I know these are not the most imaginative or "best"shots I have ever taken, but the point is that they are 2 of the ones that i took to the processing guy, as for my house and the wall that is empty they fit the theme. By the way the post was just meant to highlight the fact that when viewed in RAW and magnified, he was super impressed with the "quality" of the image.  i don't give a flying.... if he or anyone else doesn't like where the person was in the image or if the image is "corny". what someone chooses to have on their wall is their choice, and we all have different tastes. I could have chosen several images that were probably more technically correct according to 'textbooks' but they wouldn't compliment my home.  that said, Thank you one and all for replying to my thread. My aim was to get at least 30 replies and i did that so I am very happy.  Regards  Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_tanaka Posted March 8, 2007 Share #38 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Other (simulated) Internet critiques. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 8, 2007 Share #39 Â Posted March 8, 2007 I'm afraid I strongly disagree with that sentiment. The camera is simply a tool, a means to an end. It is ALL about images here, in my opinion. That's why we spend outrageous sums on Leica cameras and lenses. If we were willing to settle for inferior image quality, we'd be buying something far less expensive.[...] By the way, Carsten--I think your shot is outstanding. Â First of all, thanks for liking my shot. I know it is a corny sunset shot, but when I make one of these, I do try to add a little extra. Â I agree completely on my buying Leica, paying large sums of money although I have to work for a living, etc. However, I don't really expect that too many people come to leica-camera-user to post pictures, but rather come here to discuss the equipment. Once you want to discuss photos, who cares what equipment you use... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atufte Posted March 8, 2007 Share #40 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Maybe this will intrest your Nikon buddy...? Â (By the way this is in no way ment to flame the D200, i'm a D200 user myself, and love this camera aswell... :-) Â http://www.alexandertufte.com/D200VSM8web/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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