-ph- Posted June 1, 2012 Share #21 Posted June 1, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) In my eyes, it's a bit strange that there are so many negative comments about the Hermes M9 and its buyers here. Sounds almost the comments you get in other forums about "basic" Leica gear: overly expensive, only collectors items, not used for real photography. Sure, the Hermes edition is a fashion statement, as technically it does not offer anything over a common M9. And yes, I cannot imagine paying that amount of money on any camera. But when I walk through the expensive shopping streets of a major city, I see shops which sell a lot of similarly priced goods, like leather jackets for several thousand euros a piece - let's not even get started about jewelry and expensive watches... Judging from the number of these shops there is a large market of people who are willing to pay those prices. And to be honest, while some things are priced in a way that I fail to see the justification, usually you do get amazing craftsmanship with these kind of things. People do buy Bentleys, despite that Volkswagen also makes much cheaper cars which are quite good I think, the Hermes M9 is stunningly beautiful, the whole kit is just gorgeous. So if I was a Bentley driving person (and I wish I were, as I think they are great), I would possibly line up for one of these kits. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 1, 2012 Share #22 Posted June 1, 2012 I am a little surprised at the near anger expressed here about successful individuals. Or is it jealousy? Or is it the latest price for the expensive 50/2.0 APO or is it the high price for the MM? I hope it is not due to the Chinese Ferrari crash in Singapore bringing out anti-foreigner feelings which some internet sites have alluded to. Another way to look at it, if Leica is trying to extract every last ounce of revenue from an obvious winner, the M9, why should we care if it brings in additional revenue to allow for better future products and the R&D needed to keep the ball rolling in the right direction for US. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted June 1, 2012 Share #23 Posted June 1, 2012 It seems pretty good value really. The lenses must be worth £12000, the camera £6000, and there's got to be £15000 worth of orange leather on the camera, and that strap must be £5000. You should think of it as £2000 cashback with a free box. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayewing Posted June 1, 2012 Share #24 Posted June 1, 2012 It is quite easy to identify the photographers who buy the Hermes special edition. Judging by the Leica video they will all be wearing white cotton gloves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongrelnomad Posted June 3, 2012 Share #25 Posted June 3, 2012 How can anyone say anything bad about these cameras? Sure, I wouldn't buy one, but the fact that people do gives Leica an extra revenue boost for very little expense. And you can bet much (most?) of that gets pumped back into r&d and the next generation of cameras. Some are even the test-beds for new tech to gage reaction (eg. LEDs in Titanium M9)... so to Dr. Kaufmann... keep pumping 'em out Sir, and I hope you keep can keep selling 'em! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 3, 2012 Share #26 Posted June 3, 2012 If I was loaded beyond comprehension then I would buy one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 3, 2012 Share #27 Posted June 3, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) In my opinion to offer 100 Noctilux lenses in these special editions when there are practically zero on store shelves is the biggest slap in the face that Leica could have given their loyal customers, many of whom have been waiting many months or longer for this lens. To pull that many out of normal production for this glorified fashion show causes me to wonder why Leica has turned it's back on the customer base that supported it through some very lean years. I have no problem with the Hermes edition M9, as regular M9 and M9-P camera bodies are readily available. But whoever thought this haute photographie edition needed to include the best optics in the catalog should be keel hauled... How many Leica stores are their worldwide, perhaps 20? Wouldn't it have been wonderful if each of them had stocked 5 Noctilux lenses on their shelves at the same time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted June 3, 2012 Share #28 Posted June 3, 2012 I am a little surprised at the near anger expressed here about successful individuals. Or is it jealousy? Or is it the latest price for the expensive 50/2.0 APO or is it the high price for the MM? I hope it is not due to the Chinese Ferrari crash in Singapore bringing out anti-foreigner feelings which some internet sites have alluded to. Another way to look at it, if Leica is trying to extract every last ounce of revenue from an obvious winner, the M9, why should we care if it brings in additional revenue to allow for better future products and the R&D needed to keep the ball rolling in the right direction for US. There will always be a certain segment of people who make their happiness contingent upon what they have and will resent those who have something they don't have. Some will even go so far as to actually hate Leica and all who own a Leica camera. Such thinking is both futile and unfortunate IMO. It certainly is not productive photographically or in terms of a person's overall contentment with their life. I think the reason we are seeing people mock the $50,000 Hermes M9 kit is that compared to the total cost of the M9 and three lenses in basic black the Hermes kit seems like conspicuous consumption or "look at me, look how much money I have" showing off. I guess for most of us, such florid displays of wealth seem pointless and a bit egotistical. In a world where economic uncertainty abounds and working people can lose everything in a heartbeat, some folks will tend to view the exercise of wealth based "bragging rights" as obnoxious. I doubt that the Hermes kit makes images that are any better in terms of quality than the basic black M9 and three lens kit - and Leica cameras and lenses are about photography not about exhibitionistic displays of wealth. At least that's what I thought they were supposed to be about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 3, 2012 Share #29 Posted June 3, 2012 I was at an air show today and my black M9&M7 looked very similar to the p&s used by those around me (that's what I like too). The most impressive cameras though, were the DSLRs with huge lenses pointing to the sky (and I wished I had something longer than the 28mm on my M9 ). I think the Leica/Hermes kits are more about perfection in details, than using them to show off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoshawnuff Posted June 3, 2012 Share #30 Posted June 3, 2012 In my opinion to offer 100 Noctilux lenses in these special editions when there are practically zero on store shelves is the biggest slap in the face that Leica could have given their loyal customers, many of whom have been waiting many months or longer for this lens. Before I was indifferent, not really understanding why people would buy such a thing except to add to an already near complete Leica collection. Now, thanks to your point Stephen, I'm a little annoyed. They could have priced the 100 sets exactly the same with a 50 summilux instead of the noctilux, and sold just as many. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 3, 2012 Share #31 Posted June 3, 2012 It's all a matter of perspective... From the point of view of the man on top of the Clapham omnibus, the cameras that most of us use already are ridiculously, incomprehensibly, un-necessarily, obscenely expensive. If you don't get it, shrug and move on - whining is pointless. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted June 3, 2012 Share #32 Posted June 3, 2012 If you don't get it, shrug and move on. Regards, Bill I see people and the things they buy and do - every day. I shrug and move on every day, too. And yes - whining is pointless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted June 4, 2012 Share #33 Posted June 4, 2012 In my opinion to offer 100 Noctilux lenses in these special editions when there are practically zero on store shelves is the biggest slap in the face that Leica could have given their loyal customers, many of whom have been waiting many months or longer for this lens. I agree (even though I wouldn't want a Noctilux). And keelhauled longships. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Image Posted June 4, 2012 Share #34 Posted June 4, 2012 I know one- Me if I was rich. I'd buy the Dumas edition and use it the hell out of it. I'll bet that camera would look amazing after 10 years of good use- edges with a patina and that brown leather worn down nicely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Image Posted June 4, 2012 Share #35 Posted June 4, 2012 In my opinion to offer 100 Noctilux lenses in these special editions when there are practically zero on store shelves is the biggest slap in the face that Leica could have given their loyal customers, many of whom have been waiting many months or longer for this lens. To pull that many out of normal production for this glorified fashion show causes me to wonder why Leica has turned it's back on the customer base that supported it through some very lean years. I have no problem with the Hermes edition M9, as regular M9 and M9-P camera bodies are readily available. But whoever thought this haute photographie edition needed to include the best optics in the catalog should be keel hauled... How many Leica stores are their worldwide, perhaps 20? Wouldn't it have been wonderful if each of them had stocked 5 Noctilux lenses on their shelves at the same time? I understand the point you are making but from an outside perspective it seems a bit funny. Complaining you can't buy a $10,000 lens because they are being tied up by kits that cost $50,000 seems a little pot/kettle. Your argument about the Summilux could just as easily been used on yourself as I'm sure you would get the same great pictures that you'd get with a Noct. You won't get many sympithizers from photographers as a whole as many are shooting with much much less and producing superb work. I love both sides, the excess and struggle but I think it's important to keep it all in perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 4, 2012 Share #36 Posted June 4, 2012 Gordon Bennett - what a lot of sourpusses. What's the problem? I certainly know people who would be happy to blow £36,000 on something they want, and, to be honest, if I had the dosh sloshing around (which I most certainly don't) then I can imagine that this would be lovely to take pictures with (although, to be honest, I think I might replace the diarrhoea coloured leather) . . . . . . and what you are spending is the depreciation (assuming you have the cash for the outlay). I don't understand why everybody gets so angsty about stuff like this - If Leica are making money, then probably some of it will go on R&D on something you/we do want and can afford. Sure, some of the special editions are pretty ugly (white M8 for instance), but if Leica are making money from it - why on earth does everybody seem to be so affronted? Most of my acquaintance thing it's obscene to spend £4500 on an M9 - it's only a matter of degree. all the best! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 5, 2012 Share #37 Posted June 5, 2012 I understand the point you are making but from an outside perspective it seems a bit funny. Complaining you can't buy a $10,000 lens because they are being tied up by kits that cost $50,000 seems a little pot/kettle. Your argument about the Summilux could just as easily been used on yourself as I'm sure you would get the same great pictures that you'd get with a Noct. You won't get many sympithizers from photographers as a whole as many are shooting with much much less and producing superb work. I love both sides, the excess and struggle but I think it's important to keep it all in perspective. While I understand when you say that "many are shooting with much much less and producing superb work", but the same could be said for any camera/lens on the market. The fact remains that pros and are using Noctilux lenses to produce work seen in publications and advertisements around the world, and IMHO none of these lenses will be used for anything other than as an investment or status symbol. People are waiting on this lens for work in India, Africa, SE Asia, and more. Can you produce good work with a 50 Summilux ASPH? Well of course you can, but there are many pros and members here who have work that requires the unique shallow DOF that this lens offers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 5, 2012 Share #38 Posted June 5, 2012 While I understand when you say that "many are shooting with much much less and producing superb work", but the same could be said for any camera/lens on the market. The fact remains that pros and advanced amateurs are using Noctilux lenses to produce work seen in publications and advertisements around the world, and IMHO none of these lenses will be used for anything other than as an investment or status symbol. People are waiting on this lens for work in India, Africa, SE Asia, and more. Oh Stephen. I don't think 100 lenses is going to make much difference one way or another, and anyway, these might easily be on a different production line. Added to which, I'd say that a very high proportion of ordinary noctiluxes are no more than investments or status symbols ( mine, of course, being an exception ). I'm sure you're right that some of these will be bought as an investment, but I'm equally sure that lots of them will be used and cherished by decent photographs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 5, 2012 Share #39 Posted June 5, 2012 Jono, I hope you are correct, and I also hope that Leica are increasing lens production, but I have been told by Leica reps that Noctilux production is only a few hundred lenses a year, and so with such small production it just seems a shame to waste them here, when a 35 Summicron with puke colored numbers and special knurled aperture ring would have sufficed. Thanks for your help and advice!!! Booked into The Old Place for 4 days at the end of the month!!! Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 5, 2012 Share #40 Posted June 5, 2012 Ah, where there any statues of Emma Peel in her one piece leather jump suit getting into her Lotus? Or, do I have the wrong Avengers? Never mind... Emma Peel? Now you're just asking dirty ... Ooo, that black skin suit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.