algrove Posted May 27, 2012 Share #61 Posted May 27, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) "Leica lens reviews are becoming boring, as the modern lenses are all technically outstanding, and one needs to search hard for meaningful differences. Jeff I could not agree more, but Thein has gone beyond what most reviewers bring into their reviews. To me, he is a breath of fresh air in the review department. As for lens comments, I just might get the 28/2.0 since I could use that focal length and I completely missed how high quality of a lens it is in today's world of many high quality Leica lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 Hi algrove, Take a look here Thein Review of 50mm APO Summicron. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
algrove Posted May 27, 2012 Share #62 Posted May 27, 2012 But don’t overestimate the bragging rights provided by a Leica lens. Only a minuscule percentage of the populace will recognize an MM with Summicron APO for what it is. Useless for the professional poser. It is not in the league of a Bugatti or a head-turning trophy wife. I think it's more like a Ruf CTR with slightly flared rear quarters to fit 10" wheels in an '89 Carrera shell with incredible statistics like the 50 APO's MTF charts, and in real life really performs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted May 27, 2012 Share #63 Posted May 27, 2012 They did this with the outstanding Summarit line of lenses. Too many (Leica) lens snobs viewed them as "the poor man's Leica" in the same way as people saw the Boxter (like the 924 before it), as "the poor man's Porsche". I water cooled vehicle called a Porsche is not even close to a Leica Summarit. Air cooled Porsches are Porsche, forget the badging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent M10 Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share #64 Posted May 27, 2012 I talked to a lens designer friend some years back about what high MPixel cameras would change things. His response was to suggest that at some point (he suspected ~16MPixel on a cropped format) lens manufacturers would face the fact that whilst lenses capable of outperforming such sensors could be designed and built, the quality control issues associated with their production would mean that prices would rise quite rapidly - which I would say we have seen as all manufacturers have updated lenses and raised prices. It looks to me as though the APO Summicron is a probably perfect example of this. Stunning quality but at a price. But Leica may well have learned much from designing and putting into production such a lens. This is why I just sold my 50mm Summilux and put in a pre-order for the new 50mm APO. And, frankly, this is why I've continue to buy Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 27, 2012 Share #65 Posted May 27, 2012 The interesting thing about the two new products – APO 50 and MM – is how some of the bloggers/reviewers and forum fanboys (not necessarily the same thing) are essentially promoting the products as a package. According to some, you need the resolution of the MM to really appreciate the "superiority" of the lens and you must have the lens before you can really benefit from the increased resolution of the sensor.Yeah, and throw in a tripod heavy enough for an 8x10 camera. —Mitch/Pak Nam Pran Pak Nam Pran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted May 27, 2012 Share #66 Posted May 27, 2012 I could not agree more, but Thein has gone beyond what most reviewers bring into their reviews. To me, he is a breath of fresh air in the review department. As for lens comments, I just might get the 28/2.0 since I could use that focal length and I completely missed how high quality of a lens it is in today's world of many high quality Leica lenses. If you check MTF's (accepting this does not say anything about APO performance) and look at Leica lenses below 75mm and I think I am right in saying bar the new 50 AA, the 28/2 shows the best MTF performance. It is a stunning lens and has a very pleasant bokeh as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 27, 2012 Share #67 Posted May 27, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Does anyone know what the 6 bit coding of the new lens is - the standard 50mm Summicron-M is B-W-W-W-W-B. Even if there is no difference in the processing applied to images, I would have thought that Leica would want the camera to be able to record the fact an image was taken with this signature lens. At the moment, all the codes in use on lenses are unique even if the position of the frame selector is taken into account in determining the lens in use. At some point, the 63 optical codes (ignoring all white for "none") will be used up and Leica will be forced to use a duplicate, differentiated only by the frame selector position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted May 27, 2012 Share #68 Posted May 27, 2012 Does anyone know what the 6 bit coding of the new lens is - the standard 50mm Summicron-M is B-W-W-W-W-B. Even if there is no difference in the processing applied to images, I would have thought that Leica would want the camera to be able to record the fact an image was taken with this signature lens........................ I'm sure you're right Mark. But the differences in the photos it produces should be enough to immediately set it apart from inferior "standard" Summicrons without having to resort to coding to prove which lens was used. Surely. No? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 27, 2012 Share #69 Posted May 27, 2012 True, providing of course, as has been pointed out, the user's rangefinder is perfectly aligned and said user laid off the Rioja the previous evening... Inaccurate focussing and camera shake are this lens' enemies... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted May 27, 2012 Share #70 Posted May 27, 2012 Inaccurate focussing and camera shake are this lens' enemies... Its not alone in that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted May 27, 2012 Share #71 Posted May 27, 2012 Does anyone know what the 6 bit coding of the new lens is - the standard 50mm Summicron-M is B-W-W-W-W-B. Even if there is no difference in the processing applied to images, I would have thought that Leica would want the camera to be able to record the fact an image was taken with this signature lens. At the moment, all the codes in use on lenses are unique even if the position of the frame selector is taken into account in determining the lens in use. At some point, the 63 optical codes (ignoring all white for "none") will be used up and Leica will be forced to use a duplicate, differentiated only by the frame selector position. Mark, When the latest firmware came out about 1 year ago, I pointed out in the following thread link that there was a new code for a 50mm f/2 lens. It is code 53-3 (ie 110101 with frame 50/75). I assume this is the new 50mm AA lens. I would be nice to see someone confirm this. Yes, it is only logical that the new 50mm lens has its own code. The last two optical versions of the 50 f/s lens have unique codes. Look at post #6 in this link http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/187653-another-m9-lens-code-revelation.html Note that code 53-2 (110101 frame 135/35) is the 135mm f/3.4 APO Telyt lens. This is the code that the M9 firmware attaches exif data when one manually codes the lens. Yes, there are now two lenses with the same code (but different frame lines). See post #21 and #28 in this link for detailed discussion. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/187141-owners-brand-new-apo-telyt-m.html RM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted May 28, 2012 Share #72 Posted May 28, 2012 The EXIF data for the 50mm APO-Summicron shows only "50mm" in both M9 and Monochrom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted May 28, 2012 Share #73 Posted May 28, 2012 The EXIF data for the 50mm APO-Summicron shows only "50mm" in both M9 and Monochrom. Is that on the camera screen? If so, that is consistent with what I posted. More interesting, what does it show with a program like M9info? That prgm is probably not updated and will give the actual lens code numbers if it does not recognize a particular lens in the lookup table. More importantly: Does anyone have the 50mm AA lens? What is the code on the flange? 110101???? RM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted May 28, 2012 Share #74 Posted May 28, 2012 Is that on the camera screen? If so, that is consistent with what I posted. More interesting, what does it show with a program like M9info? That prgm is probably not updated and will give the actual lens code numbers if it does not recognize a particular lens in the lookup table. More importantly: Does anyone have the 50mm AA lens? What is the code on the flange? 110101???? RM That's in Lightroom... in M9 Info it's the same - Focal Length 50mm, Lens Unknown. Should have another lens later this week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted May 28, 2012 Share #75 Posted May 28, 2012 It is code 53-3 (i. e. 110101 with frame 50/75). I assume this is the new Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph lens. I would be nice to see someone confirm this. I hereby confirm this. The new Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph's lens id indeed is 53-3. No, I don't have one but I had the opportunity to play with one for a few minutes last week. Robert, you were the first to discover the new lens code last year, and you were spot-on. By the way, you also were the one, if I remember correctly, who discovered the lens code 51-2 which the camera interprets as '14/3.8' ... last week I asked a Leica representative when the 14 mm lens will come out. Obviously he knew exactly what I was talking about, and the immediate reply was a bold 'Never!'—so it seems this lens was planned but cancelled. Or maybe he just wasn't allowed to admit anything ... Note that code 53-2 (110101 frame 35/135) is the Apo-Telyt-M 135 mm lens. This is the code that the M9 firmware attaches EXIF data when one manually codes the lens. Yes, there are now two lenses with the same code (but different frame lines). Exactly. Unfortunately, Adobe Bridge and Lightroom still don't understand the significance of the frameline codes, so shots taken with the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph will falsely appear as taken with the Apo-Telyt-M 135 mm. I guess a future update of the Adobe software will fix this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted May 28, 2012 Share #76 Posted May 28, 2012 I hereby confirm this. The new Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph's lens id indeed is 53-3. No, I don't have one but I had the opportunity to play with one for a few minutes last week. Robert, you were the first to discover the new lens code last year, and you were spot-on. By the way, you also were the one, if I remember correctly, who discovered the lens code 51-2 which the camera interprets as '14/3.8' ... last week I asked a Leica representative when the 14 mm lens will come out. Obviously he knew exactly what I was talking about, and the immediate reply was a bold 'Never!'—so it seems this lens was planned but cancelled. Or maybe he just wasn't allowed to admit anything ... Exactly. Unfortunately, Adobe Bridge and Lightroom still don't understand the significance of the frameline codes, so shots taken with the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph will falsely appear as taken with the Apo-Telyt-M 135 mm. I guess a future update of the Adobe software will fix this. This is hilarious. Since I have the 135/3.4 and have hand coded it I guess I should never get a 50AA until things are corrected. Now I have some breathing room in the budget department again before G.A.S. overcomes me once more. Damn Leica, they keep my household from upgrading our formica kitchen counters to granite/marble or whatever. Who cares about the kitchen when I'd rather be out shooting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted May 28, 2012 Share #77 Posted May 28, 2012 The exif data has the focal length of the lens recorded separately from the lens ID codes. So much of the software discussed will display the focal length correctly but not know the lens name. The latest version of M9Info seems to be from 1/2011 (before the latest M9 firmware update), and Lightroom has not seemed to update the lens info it knows (I'm still using 3.6). I find Lightroom lax in handling these lens id's, particularly since it is the software supplied with the M9. The 135mm f/3.4 APO-Telyt is not known to Lightroom (with the current M9 firmware recording the code) and the 135/4 tele-elmar is given a false ID by lightroom as the 90/4 macro-elmar (same code but different frame value). Adobe does not seem to be particularly fast about correcting these ID lens issues. The program "exiftool" will correctly ID these lenses and will tell you exactly what is recorded in the exif and makers notes. I use the "exiftoolGUI" program and it is a convenient user interface. Both these programs are free. RM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted May 28, 2012 Share #78 Posted May 28, 2012 By the way, you also were the one, if I remember correctly, who discovered the lens code 51-2 which the camera interprets as '14/3.8' ... last week I asked a Leica representative when the 14 mm lens will come out. Obviously he knew exactly what I was talking about, and the immediate reply was a bold 'Never!'—so it seems this lens was planned but cancelled. Or maybe he just wasn't allowed to admit anything ... I never thought that this 14mm lens was close to being offered since it does NOT have a correction profile in the M9 firmware - only a lens ID. On the other hand, the SEM 21/3.4 and the new 50/2 AA both had correction profiles in the firmware of the M9 before the lens is released for sale. In the case of the new 50mm, the profile is there in the M9 a year earlier than announcement of the lens. RM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted May 28, 2012 Share #79 Posted May 28, 2012 Yes, they are... my only hope is that this Summicron, with its objectively insane price, won't be the initial offspring of a focused () strategy aimed at nearly doubling the price of the "mainstream" lenses in the next 3 years or so... this would be really a pursue of elitism which could make them to lose a significant part of their loyal customers' set; it's rather clear than the Cron 50AA does have some pluses on its side (which I happily renounce to) , but is hard to think that within a pair of years, for instance, one cannot buy a 35mm f2 because also this focal has gone "crazy priced" in the meantime... the Summarit line, with its f2,5 standard aperture, can't be the only answer for thosands of people who still believes in Leica, can't afford those stellar items but rightly pretend to have some lenses of decent aperture... Insane price? This one's rather cheap! Marktplaats.nl > Leica 50mm 2.0 summicron-M, laatste model - Audio, Tv en Foto - Fotografie | Lenzen en Objectieven Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 29, 2012 Share #80 Posted May 29, 2012 Yes, but then it is rather unique. It is a macro lens! And it is Foto Professional, the last place where I would buy anything without checking it thoroughly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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