jonoslack Posted May 22, 2012 Share #1 Posted May 22, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I promised to do this, but I'm not totally happy. Dusk was gathering, and the stiff winds of today hadn't really died down enough. But I promised! Added to which the M9 file is slightly underexposed. Both images taken on a tripod with the 28 summicron at f8 To get the files: Click on the Downloads link on the top right I'll try to do better if the weather improves I'd be interested to see your interpretations of each file. all the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Hi jonoslack, Take a look here M Monochrom vs M9 DNG files. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hoppyman Posted May 22, 2012 Share #2 Posted May 22, 2012 Jono I think it's a worthwhile exercise and there will be a lot of interest. A set in identical perfect conditions would be ideal for critical comparison. On the other hand you had me at the first M Monochrom file anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 23, 2012 Share #3 Posted May 23, 2012 That's the problem with real life - things move. If I get this camera, I won't be lugging a tripod round so that I can get absolutely crystal clear resolution for pixel peepers. It's going to have to survive with real life photography, in real life conditions. That, of course, doesn't mean I don't want the best resolution I can get - that's not the same thing at all. I'm not worse off if my camera has higher resolution (at times) than I use in real life. I will compare the images with interest, Jono! Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 23, 2012 Share #4 Posted May 23, 2012 This is a bit like blind tasting fine wine - a slightly silly exercise, but interesting nonetheless. This first image is the M9 image, processed in Silver Efex Pro 2, with the Fine Art preset. I raised the exposure slightly to get the histograms to match. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/180104-m-monochrom-vs-m9-dng-files/?do=findComment&comment=2021105'>More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 23, 2012 Share #5 Posted May 23, 2012 The second is the Monochrom image, with the same preset (Fine Art) as the M9 image, but without raising the exposure. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/180104-m-monochrom-vs-m9-dng-files/?do=findComment&comment=2021109'>More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 23, 2012 Share #6 Posted May 23, 2012 The third image is the original Monochrom image adjusted in LR4: Exposure -0.30 Contrast +24 Highlights -60 Shadows +29 Whites +11 Blacks +1 You can tell that I just slide things around till I found a result I liked. Looking at the full sized images on my monitor, I prefer this image. The detail in all the images is superb, but you can see the finer detail in the Monochrom images. I don't see any tonal problem. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/180104-m-monochrom-vs-m9-dng-files/?do=findComment&comment=2021115'>More sharing options...
adan Posted May 23, 2012 Share #7 Posted May 23, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks, Jono! What I'm seeing: - There may be a touch of back-focus in the M9 shot - the wire fencing, plants, and diagonally-wrapped garden hose running through the vines look sharper in the M9 shot, while the bike generally shows better detail in the MM shot. Also favored by the M9 - the tiny white flowers within the front bike wheel. - Where the MM shines (a bit) is in the rear tire. Notably the top right quadrant, whre the fine ribbing molded into the rubber sidewall get chopped up a bit by grid moiré in the M9 image - also the metal band around the tail-light or generator or whatever it is - cylindrical thing wired to the wheel strut - where the slots also confuse the debayerizing algorithms and look a bit ratty. (I'm using ACR - C1 may handle the M9 debayerizing more cleanly, according to some.) - I note that the MM DNG had 25% sharpening turned ON as default when opened in ACR, whereas my standard for the M9 is no sharpening in ACR. Made the MM look much snappier until I equalized things to zero. Beware! Since I mostly work in color, slightly better B&W isn't a selling point, as such. ISO 10,000, now - that might be enough for me to chase a used MM sometime in the future, for special subjects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share #8 Posted May 23, 2012 Thanks, Jono! What I'm seeing: - There may be a touch of back-focus in the M9 shot - the wire fencing, plants, and diagonally-wrapped garden hose running through the vines look sharper in the M9 shot, while the bike generally shows better detail in the MM shot. Also favored by the M9 - the tiny white flowers within the front bike wheel. - Where the MM shines (a bit) is in the rear tire. Notably the top right quadrant, whre the fine ribbing molded into the rubber sidewall get chopped up a bit by grid moiré in the M9 image - also the metal band around the tail-light or generator or whatever it is - cylindrical thing wired to the wheel strut - where the slots also confuse the debayerizing algorithms and look a bit ratty. (I'm using ACR - C1 may handle the M9 debayerizing more cleanly, according to some.) - I note that the MM DNG had 25% sharpening turned ON as default when opened in ACR, whereas my standard for the M9 is no sharpening in ACR. Made the MM look much snappier until I equalized things to zero. Beware! Since I mostly work in color, slightly better B&W isn't a selling point, as such. ISO 10,000, now - that might be enough for me to chase a used MM sometime in the future, for special subjects. HI There Dusk was gathering - I'm going to try and make a better go of this test later today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 23, 2012 Share #9 Posted May 23, 2012 Blimey Jono, I know this Leica gear costs a lot of money but you might want to think about spending a few quid on your bike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALD Posted May 23, 2012 Share #10 Posted May 23, 2012 I see too little difference on these photographs to justify buying the MM yet the apo sum micron shots were stunning does that make the difference? I suppose we need lab conditions and both cameras using the apo-summicron to really decide? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 23, 2012 Share #11 Posted May 23, 2012 I suppose we need lab conditions and both cameras using the apo-summicron to really decide? Why, do you take all your photos in a lab? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted May 23, 2012 Share #12 Posted May 23, 2012 I see too little difference on these photographs to justify buying the MM yet the apo sum micron shots were stunningdoes that make the difference? I suppose we need lab conditions and both cameras using the apo-summicron to really decide? In addition to the crispness of the MM images, the big advantage for me would be the extension of usability of the MM given it's high ISO performance. I don't need a lab to see that. Is it worth $8,000...? Well, that is a more difficult question for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotium Posted May 23, 2012 Share #13 Posted May 23, 2012 Thanks so much for posting! I agree that the M9 is back focused. In the upper right hand there is a hole that goes back to some more distant leaves; these are all in focus in th M9 sample, blurry with the MM; the reverse is true for most of the rest of the scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share #14 Posted May 23, 2012 Thanks so much for posting! I agree that the M9 is back focused. In the upper right hand there is a hole that goes back to some more distant leaves; these are all in focus in th M9 sample, blurry with the MM; the reverse is true for most of the rest of the scene. yes - rubbish tester - I'll try and do better in a few days. It's never good to be in a hurry! Sorry - have fun with the bridge instead! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted May 23, 2012 Share #15 Posted May 23, 2012 This is not fair! Jono, you are going to cost me a lot of money. I hope Leica is paying you a commission or at the very least gave you a huge discount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 23, 2012 Share #16 Posted May 23, 2012 I agree, Jono nearly had me write a check on the spot in Berlin, just by showing me his files... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 3, 2012 Share #17 Posted June 3, 2012 And to think that a few years ago this is what Jono had to say about the possibility of a monochrome M8. Just happened stumble on this when searching a monochrome issue. Funny to read comments by various members in light of recent discussions. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted June 3, 2012 Share #18 Posted June 3, 2012 Ah - that's the problem with the internet - you can't escape from your past re the debate (and a propos Jono's comment re colour channels), I have similar feelings. The PP on the image below (DNG (compressed - which is what I always use - available at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/862415/DNG/L1014173.dng) depended on being able to work with colour channels in the LR B&W conversion module. I really like this, and hardly ever bother to use Silver Efex. Whether or not you like the photo is a matter of taste - this I recognise. However, the flexibility I have in BW conversion work flow with LR 4.1 + the output from the M9 is something I'd be loathe to lose. The LR main settings can be seen below. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/180104-m-monochrom-vs-m9-dng-files/?do=findComment&comment=2030062'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 3, 2012 Share #19 Posted June 3, 2012 And to think that a few years ago this is what Jono had to say about the possibility of a monochrome M8. Just happened stumble on this when searching a monochrome issue. Funny to read comments by various members in light of recent discussions. Jeff And the funny thing is quite a few users find the M8 better for B&W than the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ming Rider Posted June 3, 2012 Share #20 Posted June 3, 2012 Sorry about this but I'm going to be brutally frank here. I think you all need to take a reality check. Try and be honest with yourselves. There is no real-world difference between the images. To be reduced to pixel peeping and after much trawling, declare that 'there is more detail in the fine ribbing of a small part of the rear tyre' ? I wager that any discernable difference between the images, is more down to manufacturing tolerances than actual product capability. In the realms of pure hard cash, how much difference are you really looking at ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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