skinnfell Posted May 14, 2012 Share #1  Posted May 14, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dear Leica  Now that you have proven your commitment to black and white, you know, "Das Wesentliche" and all that:  Please, pretty please, can we have M9 firmware that lets us preview B&W DNGs WITHOUT having to shoot DNG+JPG?  Canon and everybody else have been offering this useful feature for years. Come on, Leica!  Why? Because when shooting pictures I know are going to end up in B&W, being able to preview them as B&W on location is extremely helpful. The camera does this when shooting dng+jpg, why not with dng only?  If You fix this for me I promise I won't complain about dropped frames, hot pixels and small buffer for AT LEAST half a year :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Hi skinnfell, Take a look here One Small Request for Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Phil U Posted May 14, 2012 Share #2 Â Posted May 14, 2012 I agree, it would be a nice feature to have and surely not too hard or expensive to provide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 14, 2012 Share #3 Â Posted May 14, 2012 I wonder if the problem might be that the preview has to come from either the embedded JPEG in the RAW file or the JPEG created by the camera? It might be that the DNG standard only allows for a colour embedded preview file so, when shooting DNG only, there is only a colour preview image available. Canon and Nikon use proprietary RAW formats which might be more flexible (and which presumably allow for the presence of a B&W embedded preview image). Just a theory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted May 14, 2012 Share #4  Posted May 14, 2012 While holding your breath, you may select DNG + JPEG basic as the Compression setting in the SET menu and 1280 × 846 px (1 MP) as the Resolution setting, also in the SET menu. This way, you won't get rid of the unwanted JPEG files but you'd get the smallest-possible JPEG files, consuming only very little space on the memory card. And even the smallest JPEG still is big enough for the camera's preview display.  Having said that ... what's wrong with DNG + JPEG format? I often end up using the out-of-camera JPEG when exposure and white balance are nailed, saving some post-processing effort and time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted May 14, 2012 Share #5 Â Posted May 14, 2012 Canon and Nikon use proprietary raw formats which might be more flexible ... No raw image format is more flexible than DNG. Â Â ... which presumably allow for the presence of a B&W embedded preview image ... When shooting the M9 in DNG+JPEG format and setting the colour saturation to Black+White then both the JPEG image file as well as the preview image embedded in the DNG file will be black-and-white. And in post-processing, you can always change the appearance of the DNG's embedded preview file to whatever you like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted May 14, 2012 Share #6 Â Posted May 14, 2012 ... what's wrong with DNG + JPEG format? I often end up using the out-of-camera JPEG when exposure and white balance are nailed, saving some post-processing effort and time. Â Nothing wrong with DNG + JPEG basic format, but I don't do it as it significantly slows the speed at which the buffer is cleared, compared to DNG only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 14, 2012 Share #7  Posted May 14, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) No raw image format is more flexible than DNG.  I meant more flexible in the sense of not needing to adhere to any kind of 'open' standard but I suspect you realised that.   While holding your breath, you may select DNG + JPEG basic as the Compression setting in the SET menu and 1280 × 846 px (1 MP) as the Resolution setting, also in the SET menu.  We know all that. How about explaining why it is not possible to have B&W previews in the DNG only mode. It is a feature that has been widely requested since the days of the M8. Leica isn't totally pigheaded, there must be a non-trivial reason why they cannot implement it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 14, 2012 Share #8  Posted May 14, 2012 Frankly I don‘t get it: Having a full-resolution preview image of a DNG file requires that the camera creates a JPEG preview image – which it does when you save as DNG+JPEG. How is a DNG with an embedded full resolution preview image differerent from DNG+JPEG, except that the JPEG preview is stored within the DNG file? The camera had to perform the same tasks, the number of bytes written would roughly be the same, and chances are it would take about the same time. Only you lose the separate JPEG file that I for one wouldn’t want to lose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 14, 2012 Share #9 Â Posted May 14, 2012 Michael, what kind of preview is created when you shoot DNG only? I guess what the OP is asking is why that preview in DNG only mode cannot be B&W? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 14, 2012 Share #10  Posted May 14, 2012 I guess what the OP is asking is why that preview in DNG only mode cannot be B&W? The raw data captured in B&W mode are exactly the same as in colour mode, so I assume that Leica thought the embedded preview should also be the same. The DNG can still be converted to a colour image after all; there is no such thing as a B&W DNG (unless it’s the M Monochrom of course). Or put differently, the B&W vs. colour setting only applies to JPEG files, not to DNG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 14, 2012 Share #11 Â Posted May 14, 2012 The raw data captured in B&W mode are exactly the same as in colour mode, so I assume that Leica thought the embedded preview should also be the same. Â This bit I don't really get. Is there a technical reason why the camera couldn't have a 'DNG-only with B&W Preview' mode? In other words, you shoot only RAW but you get to see the preview on the camera LCD in B&W. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 15, 2012 Share #12  Posted May 15, 2012 B&W mode only affects JPEGs since only JPEGs can be B&W; there are no B&W raw files. If you shoot DNG only the B&W setting has no effect. It’s not a technical restriction but a logical one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 15, 2012 Share #13  Posted May 15, 2012 B&W mode only affects JPEGs since only JPEGs can be B&W; there are no B&W raw files. If you shoot DNG only the B&W setting has no effect. It’s not a technical restriction but a logical one.  I'm not entirely sure if you are just stating a tautology here. Obviously the M9/M8 RAW file itself cannot be B&W but doesn't the camera use a preview file of some sort when you view a DNG (in DNG-only mode) on the camera LCD? Let me try and be clearer: in DNG-only mode, does the camera display a preview of some sort (rather than the actual RAW) when you view it on the rear LCD?: if so, can this preview be shown in B&W? If not, why not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 15, 2012 Share #14  Posted May 15, 2012 B&W mode only affects JPEGs since only JPEGs can be B&W; there are no B&W raw files. If you shoot DNG only the B&W setting has no effect. It’s not a technical restriction but a logical one. Ummm - since all sensors are monochrome and colour can only be interpolated, can't it be argued that raw is essentially B&W? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maarten Posted May 15, 2012 Share #15 Â Posted May 15, 2012 This will never happen: Leica just released a B&W only camera and therefore will not support the B&W review on the existing M9. Otherwise the attention would move away from the new camera to the old. Leica want you (and others) to buy the M Monochrom: this is a commercial business! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted May 15, 2012 Share #16  Posted May 15, 2012 Ummm—since all sensors are monochrome and colour can only be interpolated, can't it be argued that raw is essentially B&W? No. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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