mooky Posted May 14, 2012 Share #41 Posted May 14, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think if you look at this from a financial perspective, the last thing Leica wants to do is make a camera for lenses that are already in the hands of users with no new lenses to sell them. So why would they take a risk of launching a new system when they can't make enough M lenses to meet demand? I expect the R solution is Leica taking so long that R owners go away. That is not to say that someday Leica won't have a full frame or smaller EVF camera that can accept R lenses via an adapter. I was wondering last night IF the DSLR R was released back in 2008 - if it wouldn't have dented the digital M sales? It may have been as simple a question as that - competition within the brand line-up - not selling huge numbers of R and taking the 'best prospect' for sales away from the M - who knows? In the BJP interview from the Berlin event, Kaufmann states to the affect that the M 'platform' will be used for other designs (functions?) and still have the M9 - whether that would mean a 'bridge camera' that would allow R lenses is of course anyone's guess, and not likely a priority. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Hi mooky, Take a look here Did Any Leica Person Say Anything for R Sufferers?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k-hawinkler Posted May 14, 2012 Share #42 Posted May 14, 2012 As soon as the M camera uses CMOS sensors and provides LiveView in addition to the rangefinder, then problem solved for me. One could focus R lenses then on the M. R to M adapters already exist. That's all that is needed at a minimum, isn't it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 14, 2012 Share #43 Posted May 14, 2012 As soon as the M camera uses CMOS sensors and provides LiveView in addition to the rangefinder, then problem solved for me. One could focus R lenses then on the M. R to M adapters already exist.That's all that is needed at a minimum, isn't it? Yes... and, in any case, Leica will never release a product declaring that "this is the R solution"... is too a vague definition.... lot of R users will start to complain that one or another feature doesn't work properly or completely ; if there will be a Leica camera that can accept, focus and operate R lenses (as is in several "Leitaxed" DSLR) that will be sufficient... maybe they even won't make an adapter of their own, leaving the task to the usual 3rd parties. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 14, 2012 Share #44 Posted May 14, 2012 ... maybe they even won't make an adapter of their own, leaving the task to the usual 3rd parties. If Leica does make some kind of FF live view camera then the least they can do is make an R adapter that will control the aperture and meter wide open. There probably won't be enough demand for third parties to do this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted May 14, 2012 Share #45 Posted May 14, 2012 If Leica does make some kind of FF live view camera then the least they can do is make an R adapter that will control the aperture and meter wide open. There probably won't be enough demand for third parties to do this. That's gonna be a 6 bit coded adapter ... buy more sharpies. :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roydonian Posted May 16, 2012 Share #46 Posted May 16, 2012 It seems that I’m a bit out-of-date regarding the R-solution. On the editor’s page of the 1/2012 issue of the LHSA magazine ‘Viewfinder’ there is the statement that “At the Pittsburgh LHSA meeting [in October 2012] Stefan Daniel predicted two new cameras from Leica this year by Photokina time. A new M and the ever elusive, long anticipated R solution”. Assuming that “this year” is a reference to 2012, it sounds like the plan was to launch both the new M camera (presumably the M Monochrom) and the R-solution prior to Photokina. As reported elsewhere in our forum, the schedule for the planned ‘at least APS-C’ interchangeable-lens camera has slipped. Dr Kaufmann is on the record (in an article ‘Leica's new interchangeable lens camera system unlikely to be introduced in 2012’ in the British Journal of Photography) as saying that “There's a project in place, but no timeframe.” The unanswered question is whether this new but now delayed camera system also represents the promised R Solution, or whether the latter is a separate project that may or may not be ready for announcement at this year’s Photokina. Personally, I would not view a camera with less than a full-frame sensor as a definitive R solution. I would want my existing reflex lenses to retain their current angular coverage. Best regards, Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted May 16, 2012 Share #47 Posted May 16, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) No, I have absolutely no interest in film at all. Neither do I. The DMR obliterated the vestigial interest I had in using film. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 16, 2012 Share #48 Posted May 16, 2012 No, I have absolutely no interest in film at all. The R system is basically a film camera system, certainly it is now given the viability of the DMR as a s/h purchase. If you have absolutely no interest in film then it really is time to move on, if your desire is for a FF DSLR system. Any other 'solution' is a compromise, only worth doing if you don't mind the inconvenience of crop sensors/stop down metering/adaptors etc. to use your R lenses. Whatever Leica come up with next will most likely involve the same. I really can't see Leica introducing a new DSLR to accommodate R users, or even a new '35mm' DSLR system, they've already said they can't compete in that market. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 16, 2012 Share #49 Posted May 16, 2012 If Leica does make some kind of FF live view camera then the least they can do is make an R adapter that will control the aperture and meter wide open. I very much doubt that would happen. R lenses are purely mechanical in their operation, requiring moving levers and cams, while any camera that were to be designed now would use an electronic method of adjusting the aperture and communicating with the body. I doubt whether anyone could make an adapter that translates such electronics into mechanics, and still keep within the needs of the adapter thickness, etc. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roydonian Posted May 16, 2012 Share #50 Posted May 16, 2012 I really can't see Leica introducing a new DSLR to accommodate R users, or even a new '35mm' DSLR system, they've already said they can't compete in that market. That’s correct – Daniel is already on the record as saying that the R solution will be based on an electronic viewfinder. If that implies that the viewing and metering can be done with the lens already stopped down to the required aperture, then the adaptors needed to allow an R lens to be mounted would not need to ‘read’ the lens’ cams or ROM, or to open and close its diaphragm. A small-bodied camera with autofocus lenses, but able to accept manually focussed M and R lenses via adaptors and provide a focus confirmation signal in the viewfinder might be able to act as: * a new medium-price system camera, * the R solution, and * a workable answer for older users whose eyesight has deteriorated to the point when M-style rangefinding is no longer practical. But the penalty could be having a cropped sensor. Best regards, Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted May 16, 2012 Share #51 Posted May 16, 2012 If you have absolutely no interest in film then it really is time to move on, if your desire is for a FF DSLR system. I didn't ask if it was time to move on. For my use of my lenses it's my decision, not yours or anyone else's. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted May 16, 2012 Share #52 Posted May 16, 2012 I very much doubt that would happen. R lenses are purely mechanical in their operation, requiring moving levers and cams, while any camera that were to be designed now would use an electronic method of adjusting the aperture and communicating with the body. I doubt whether anyone could make an adapter that translates such electronics into mechanics, and still keep within the needs of the adapter thickness, etc. In an EOS or S lens, how are the electronic signals translated into mechanically stopping an aperture down? All an adapter would need is the same mechanism, in the adapter instead of in the lens. The mechanism in R lenses is as simple as it gets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 16, 2012 Share #53 Posted May 16, 2012 Yes, but somehow a body which only has electronic communication with its native lenses would need an adaptor which converted those signals to a mechanical movement. That's not an easy thing to do in the volume available in an adaptor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 16, 2012 Share #54 Posted May 16, 2012 I didn't ask if it was time to move on. For my use of my lenses it's my decision, not yours or anyone else's. James wasn't responding to your post. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyedward Posted May 16, 2012 Share #55 Posted May 16, 2012 I'm new to leica and came to the brand because of the excellent image quality R lenses produce. I have an elmarit R 100/2,8 leitaxed onto a d3x, and the image quality is wonderful. What was the reasoning behind the introduction of the R line? Where did it sit in relation to the M system? I wonder why the R line was discontinued. Was it because leica feared they couldn't compete with canikon, so they ditched it in favour of the MF S2, which canikon couldn't compete with? From my perspective, canikon cannot compete with leica on image quality, so in this regard, leica should have continued with R as many canikon users would have come to the same conclusions I have. If leica had continued with the R system, can you imagine how good the lenses would be now?! Because leica will never reintroduce R glass, I will never buy another nikon camera, and my future is with the M system Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted May 16, 2012 Share #56 Posted May 16, 2012 It would appear that in Leica's collective mind, there is no R system problem. The message from Solms ("Sorry about your luck, get over it or bugger off ") seems pretty clear. If I owned an R kit, I would not be happy with that message, either. But if the R system was not selling at least reasonably well and was a financial millstone around Leica's neck, can we really blame them for retiring the R system? As distasteful and unfortunate as it is, it has to be the lesser of two evils for the R system to go down the tubes rather than having the whole company founder and slip beneath the waves. The R owners seem to have three options : Scour the used market for what you want/need, be content with what you have or trade your R kit in on M gear (for nickels on the dollar, of course) . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted May 16, 2012 Share #57 Posted May 16, 2012 I think that Leica did just that some years ago now. Let's just get over it, the R9 was considered by many to be the best DSR available at the time, albeit manual focus. Both the R8 and R9 are still fantastic film cameras with a superb range of lenses to cover every imaginable subject from landscape to wildlife via the fantastic range of wide to extreme telephoto lenses via proper macro lenses. The R100/F2.8 macro was one of my favourites. Unfortunately the M range of rangefinders does not have this flexibility and as hard as this may seem to many here, the M just does not suit some photographers. Therefore Leica consciously made a decision to leave this segment of the rapidly developing digital DSR camera market, in my opinion for ever. Sad as this is to contemplate, it is a fact. Now we can't blame Leica management for making a strategic business decision of this magnitude if it did indeed save the brand. However the way in which it was done has left many ex R users, particularly DMR types with a distinctly bad taste for Leica. That is not to say that our respect for the brand has disappeared but loyalty is now at best divided and often now resident with other DSLR brands. Sadly various members of the Leica management team have misled us particularly in the early years of the R's demise by mentioning a potential Leica solution for existing R lenses. Personally, I never did believe this when Leica sold off their stock of new R lenses at huge (for Leica!) discounts! So I sold out as fast as I could!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 16, 2012 Share #58 Posted May 16, 2012 I am not worried about water under the bridge. In fact I was fully aware of all these issues and bought some R lenses very recently anyway. What has changed is the appearance of APS-C sized mirror less cameras with short register distance. One would think eventually someone will produce a FF version. Why not Leica first? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted May 16, 2012 Share #59 Posted May 16, 2012 James wasn't responding to your post. My assumption is that we're all intelligent enough to decide for ourselves when it's time to move on. Does James believe otherwise? Or does he want us to validate his choice? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted May 16, 2012 Share #60 Posted May 16, 2012 Yes, but somehow a body which only has electronic communication with its native lenses would need an adaptor which converted those signals to a mechanical movement. That's not an easy thing to do in the volume available in an adaptor. What adapters are you thinking of? An R-to-EOS adapter? Adapters for SLR lenses for E-mount cameras are much thicker. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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