Beginner

[Axot]

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I'm new to serious photography (1st DSLR just 6 months old) and I'm liking it. Don't expect to become a "real" photographer, but its clear now that I'll not get back to point-and-shoots (at least until the IMO inevitable merge between DSL and pn's).

 

I'm increasingly curious about film photography:

 

- I believe the film cameras limitations (rangefinder, manual focus, ...) will make my photography skills much better;

 

- We're thinking about kids, and I believe it's a nice family bonding opportunity: the magic of developing film at home, a camera that will last for generations.

 

Leica is the obvious choice (mystique, toughness), but before I commit to expensive glass let me ask you general questions about film photography. Keep in mind I know NOTHING about this stuff:

 

- Are there high quality color films still being produced? Which ones? How long until discontinued?

 

- Are you confident high quality b&w film (and related supplies) will be available for a few decades still?

 

- Where can I learn about the different types of Leica lenses? Summarit, Summilux, Noctilux, Elmar, etc...

 

- Is there a point in using Zeiss lens? What adjustments are necessary?

 

TIA

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[jneilt]

You will get different opinions...

 

Yes, good and great film still exist. I assume it will be around for quite awhile. Why? Because there is still a market for it.

 

Lenses...read here, look at photos here.

 

I have no experience with Zeiss lenses. Some like them, some don't. I would stick with a nice 50 summicron to start and go from there.

 

FYI...I bought my first film leica just 2 months ago.

[DaveO]

Kodak makes two great films for pictures of people. Portra 160 and Portra 400. The 400 is actually supposed to be better for fine grain, exposure latitude, and dynamic range I believe.

[earleygallery]

Don't worry about how long film will be available for, that's a non-issue.

 

There is a good choice of colour and B&W film. Try a selection for yourself to decide which ones you prefer. Film is still quite cheap. It's very easy to process your own 'traditional' B&W film at home. You can then scan/print or maybe you want to get into 'wet' printing at home too?

 

As for the camera/lens, is your DSLR full frame? Why not just buy a s/h film body and you can use the same lenses.

[too old to care]

I am also curious about the type of DSLR you have. I switched from my Pentax K1000 to a K5 last year because I have so many Pentax lenses. I stopped using the K1000 in 1998 anyway when I got my M6.

 

As far as Zeiss goes, I only have/had two. One is on my Hasselblad the other was a 50mm, f1.4 that I used on my sold MK5DII. They seem good to me, but I have nothing really to compare them to.

 

Funny thing too, I probably take 10 film shots to one digital shot. Hope film is here for awhile longer.

 

Wayne

[philipus]

Fwiw, it's not about the camera - you can learn photography (and become an amazing photographer) with any camera. Buying into one of the most expensive systems to learn film photography may not be the wisest move. That said, we're all different and whatever works for you etc.

 

To learn about Leica cameras, lenses and accessories I found the Wiki on this site to be a great starting point. It links to relevant discussion threads in the forum. There is an amazing amount of info here (please just don't start another bag thread ). Don't hesitate to ask more specific questions in the forum.

 

I agree with Dave, Portra 400 is more versatile than 160. It's an incredible film. Other personal faves of mine are Tri-X 400, ADX100, Fuji slides. A nice recent acquaintance is the Efke 25.

[Axot]

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My current gear is a Nikon D7000 with 2 lenses (50mm 1.4 and 16-85mm 3.5-5.6).

 

I know that becoming a good photographer is not about the gear, there are no magical devices. But dealing with an unforgiving camera (film, manual, gorgeous lenses) will push me out of the comfort zone. I'm assuming a Leica will beat the a** out of me, forcing me to improve my skills.

 

Though I admit that there is a lot of camera lust involved in the idea of jumping straight to a Leica as my first film. And it's not easy money for me...

 

Guess I'll wait another 6 months before taking any steps. UNLESS they announce a digital autofocus M on Thursday... Then I may consider buying one of these and later share the lenses (in manual mode of course) with a film Leica. After I sell the D7000 and two kidneys...

[too old to care]

My 2 cents again, I am just offering some advice that I think most of us here will agree with.

 

I just got back shooting a roll of film with my Rollei 35SE. I bought that camera new in the very early 80s. It has seen its share of use and abuse, however it keeps on ticking (as they used to say).

 

That camera taught me more about photography than anything else I have ever owned. You have no range finder focus, you must guess the focus. It has a light meter, but settings are totally manual. It takes great photos (Sonnar 40mm, f2.8), and it is easy to carry, which is why I keep with me on my motorcycle.

 

Is it better than learning on a Leica, or a K1000, or an OM2? Maybe. Please do not get the Leica because you think you can learn more. Just get a film camera and go shoot film. Learn to develop it. Scan or wet print and enjoy. That is how most of us here got started. An by the way, I have been shooting film for over 50 years, and I learn something everyday.

 

Enjoy,

 

Wayne

[M9reno]

If you feel it in your gut that you want a Leica, don't compromise. Do it, and you are 99% likely never to regret it. To cover the 1% risk, there is the well-known resale value of Leica equipment.

 

Making photography a family experience is a great idea. However, my children aged 4 and 7 don't give a hoot about Leica. (Frankly they're positively annoyed by their father's obsession!) Far more interesting to them is a pinhole camera we built together out of cardboard and a chocolate box. My daughter also enjoys helping out in the darkroom. Otherwise, these are true children of the digital age - chimping on my phone camera for immediate reward is second nature to them. A working film camera is a benign presence in the house. I hope film will slow the kids down, teach them patience, make them more observant and sensitive, as it has gradually been doing to me.

 

Regardless of where technology is heading, such are the intrinsic pleasures of shooting film on a Leica. Film is a beautiful medium, and what a privilege and inspiration it is to handle and use a noble instrument, made yesterday, or 30, or 50, or 80 years ago, but capable regardless of doing perfectly what it was built for. I'm pretty sure there will be film manufacturers for a long time to come, even if only catering to this sort of hedonism! There are many stranger, yet commercially-viable things in this world.

 

Anyway, think about what kind of experience you want, and follow your instincts.

 

Good luck!

[earleygallery]

You have a Nikon 50mm 1.4 lens. That's an excellent lens by any measure.

 

For less than £200 you can go out and buy a Nikon F2 body from a dealer with a warranty. It may or may not have a metered head which may or may not work. For about £50 you can also buy yourself a s/h decent digital handheld meter.

 

Nikon F2, 50mm lens, incident metering. Many famous pro photographers have earn''t their livings with that kit.

 

I'm not saying don't buy a Leica, but start with that and when you feel comfortable with your workflow and ready for a new challenge, then you can look for a nice M camera.

[pico]

[....]I'm increasingly curious about film photography:

 

- I believe the film cameras limitations (rangefinder, manual focus, ...) will make my photography skills much better;

 

You will probably get contrary views, but it will be healthy discussion.

 

If you want to use a Leica M, then start with a rangefinder. Starting with an SLR could make the transition to the more difficult to use rangefinder somewhat discouraging, depending upon your constitution.

 

- We're thinking about kids, and I believe it's a nice family bonding opportunity: the magic of developing film at home, a camera that will last for generations.

 

Thinking doesn't make kids. A camera that will last for generations would be a later MP because parts will likely be available. A generation is what, like 25 years today? (Mean time for first children to bear children.)

 

Someone else will answer your questions, others will point you to the FAQ, source of authority for Leica lenses (Erwin Puts), and opinions regarding Zeiss lenses will be all over the map. About lenses - nobody can really describe how a lens renders. One has to use a lens to know. I started with a Leica lens that is as old as I am, 66, and it was good then and it is good today, for me.

 

And welcome!

 

TIA

 

YAWIA

[runes]

Hello Axot.

 

Like you I also have the Nikon D7000 with the 50/1.4 and the 16-85.

 

However, as I've been a Nikon shooter for 25 years I also have (or rather had) a nice collection of film bodies and manual focus lenses aquired during those 25 years. Recently I've sold all the zoom lenses, some of the primes and all the film bodies except my F2 and a F301 (it was my first camera, so I'm keeping it for sentimental reasons). I am however keeping most of the primes, as I also like to use them on my D7000.

 

Anyway, unless you feel you HAVE to have a Leica, I'd advice you to buy either an F3 (maybe the best manual focus SLRs ever) or an F2 (maybe the best mechanic SLRs ever) and "a bunch" of manual lenses you can use both on your D7000 and on your F2/F3.

 

$1000/€800/£600 will get you either an F2/F3 and some classic Nikon lenses like 24/2.8, 50/1.8, 105/2.5, 200/4. "Nobody" wants the classic Nikon manual focus lenses any longer, except film photographers using DSLRs and they only buy the 1.2 and 1.4 lenses. The result is that except the 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 50/1.2 and 85/1.4 Nikon lenses are almost given away.

[Axot]

I'm trying hard to think rationally, put down this plan for a few months, and start humbly. I'm not succeeding...

 

Another basic question: can you exchange lens mid-film? Or you'll need a darkroom for that?

[E.M]

You can always exchange lens mid-film . Also consider a FM2 ( or FM , FM3 ) if you 're going the Nikon way , 100 % mechanical and a bit smaller than the F series .

[E.M]

Correction : the FM3 is mechanical and electronic , it works at all speeds if the batteries fail .

[Messsucherkamera]

@ Axot -

 

First off, welcome to the forum!

 

If you want to start humbly (and economically, by Leica standards) you will find many Leica M camera bodies and lenses that can be purchased for around $1000-1500US for the body and $500-1000US for the lens. You just have to shop around, there are reasonably priced Leicas out there. If that isn't financially doable, you could find a nice FM2n or F3hp to use with your Nikon lenses for a song. I have seen good user F3hp bodies (rated at 8 to 8+) for sale at $275-300US.

 

Regarding film availability, I would expect C41 and E6 film choices to dwindle over the years while B&W film choices will remain more or less stable - Kodak 's current terminal illness notwithstanding. I would expect there to be some sort of B&W film to be available for the foreseeable future. As for 25-50 years down the road, who knows?

 

Film (along with paper and chemical) prices will continue to creep upward over the years, but so will the prices of everything else. Bulk loading is a way to save perhaps 20-25% on your film costs.

 

Developing your own film is a big cost cutter for B&W film - B&W costs around $0.40 to $0.50US per roll to develop at home. Developing is actually an enjoyable activity (IMO). Developing film beats sitting for hours at a keyboard diddling with Photoshop. Again, JMHO.

[azzo]

...

 

- I believe the film cameras limitations (rangefinder, manual focus, ...) will make my photography skills much better; ...

 

 

No. It has nothing to do with equipment.

It is learning how to see, recognize a good photo opportunity and to compose it well.

 

You don't even need a camera for that.

[NZDavid]

Hi Axot, I agree with Azzo. And there is nothing wrong with a simple compact camera, as long as it has a good lens and the image is exposed and processed OK. I reckon your best investment to begin with would be some books on photography -- not all about the equipment, but about composition, with examples of great photographs. To my mind, composition is the single most important aspect of photography. Followed by lighting. On a trip a few years ago, I was pleased with my results using film and a Leica M6 with a wide angle lens, but was very impressed with the pictures taken by a designer using an HTC cell phone camera. She simply had a good eye for composition.

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[Redridge]

Your current dslr is a great system.... learn to use it in manual mode. Take pictures in all sorts of conditions, at night, midday, dim, artificial and natural light, flash, etc.... this is actually how you learn how to take photographs. The vision of what the photograph should look like will come as you develop your own certain style. If you feel the Leica will inspire you.... well, what the heck... life is short.

[tobey bilek]

Film is going away, sadly. Don`t put a bunch of money into it.

 

Unless you set up a darkroom and run the process from start to finish, you will not learn more than with a digital camera. There is no control or learning if you send out film for processing and local/cheap processing is the downfall of film photography and always has been. You will never learn who screwed up.

 

A second the idea of buy a film same brand as your DSLR if it is full frame and can use the same lenses.

 

Turn you digi cam to manual and you will learn faster and have instant feedback. This allows a proper pic to be made right away.