RobertJRB Posted March 31, 2012 Share #1 Â Posted March 31, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Does anyone here use the 18mm with the M9? Â I have the 18mm with I use on a M8. I was thinking of selling it to fund an used M9 (when the M10 is there) Â Â Now I might get a big project of photographing interiors. The 18mm on the M8 (24mm) isn't wide enough by far so I was thinking of buying a canon 5D with 17 TSE. Used the combo before and its perfect for the job. Â This set of 5D with TSE would set me back about 4000 euro, and the used M9's are getting into that price level. So this got me thinking of keeping the 18mm and just buy a M9. Â Offcourse the 5D and TSE is the better combo for the job (liveview, shift, possibility to use an extender to get a 24mm lens, easy stitching when the 17mm isn't enough) But I don't really like having two different systems and with the 5D I have to buy a lot of extra's (battery's, CF cards, tripod plate ect) Â So my question is, does anyone has experience with the 18 on a full frame M9? And is you have experience with interior shots with the 18mm, how does it do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Hi RobertJRB, Take a look here 18mm SE examples on M9 for interior. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chris_tribble Posted March 31, 2012 Share #2  Posted March 31, 2012 I use the zeiss 18 on the M9 and it's a great lens for documentary / reportage work, but for serious architectural work I don't think you can beat a TS lens. Why not look around for a clean used Canon 5D mk 1 (pm me - I may want to sell mine as I'm planning to get 5d3 to replace my 5d2 which I'll keep as backup ) and then get a TS lens. The 5D + TS lens will give consistently better results IMHO and as you can get the 17 TSE for under €2000 + a used 5D mk1 for around €800, the price is way less than the €4000 you mention. I have nothing against the M9 - I use it all the time - it's just a case of the right tool for the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daubsphoto Posted March 31, 2012 Share #3 Â Posted March 31, 2012 I'm wondering....how valuable are t/s lenses these days given the ability to adjust for perspective problems in photoshop? I've never used them, and I've made corrections for tilt in photoshop, but what is the opinion of the architectural pros out there? Just curious.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertJRB Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share #4  Posted March 31, 2012 I use the zeiss 18 on the M9 and it's a great lens for documentary / reportage work, but for serious architectural work I don't think you can beat a TS lens. Why not look around for a clean used Canon 5D mk 1 (pm me - I may want to sell mine as I'm planning to get 5d3 to replace my 5d2 which I'll keep as backup ) and then get a TS lens. The 5D + TS lens will give consistently better results IMHO and as you can get the 17 TSE for under €2000 + a used 5D mk1 for around €800, the price is way less than the €4000 you mention. I have nothing against the M9 - I use it all the time - it's just a case of the right tool for the job.  I thought this would be the answer. Thanks. Thinking about it your just right. It seemed like a good reason to get an M9 sooner than I thought. But the TSE is just the perfect fit..  Thanks for the offer but the 5D 2 would have the preference over the 5D 1 because of the liveview, Even with a split screen I find it hard to use MF lenses on the present DSLR's. And 22 mpix would be nice. Besides I can buy it new for 1450 euro (without taxes) so this would be about the same as used ones go for. So after the job I can always just sell it for about the same.  Did you code your 18mm? Any problems with colorshift?   I'm wondering....how valuable are t/s lenses these days given the ability to adjust for perspective problems in photoshop? I've never used them, and I've made corrections for tilt in photoshop, but what is the opinion of the architectural pros out there? Just curious....  First the quality is much higher. Shifted to the correct perspective U use the full sensor for the picture. With photoshop you always stretch the existing pixels meaning a loss of quality. And you almost all the time have to crop the picture with means loss of pixels.  Second the tilt can't be faked in photoshop. Off course the miniature effect can be faked a bit, but the endless sharpness can't. With the 17mm that isn't such a big a deal because of the huge dept of field (17mm @ F8-F11) the lens already has. But with the other TS lenses the tilt function is a big pro.  Third the pano's (shifting to the right and left ) are realyl handy. No need of an pano head on your tripod, and no non fitting pano's. With the new canon TS's you can twist the shift and tilt in 45 degree angles. So by doing this you can make a stitched picture with after cropping compares to one made with a 11mm lens. Combined with the 1,4x converter its a 24mm lens. So you would have 3 lenses in one.  But the biggest reason is speed. The project contains 120 houses at first. Lets say 10 pictures a house. Correcting in PS takes time, lets say 5 min per photo extra. At the end this is 6000 minutes extra work. 100 hours so 2 weeks work extra. If I only have to correct 1 picture per house at the end it would still mean 10 hours of work extra. And most of the times it takes more than 5 minutes. Setting the lens isn't that much more work than with an ordinary lens.   Writing this I convinced myself it should be the TSE Nevertheless examples with the 18mm SE on the M9 are more than welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2012 Share #5 Â Posted March 31, 2012 It is shooting yourself in the foot a bit to sell the lens to fund an M9, as you will be selling one half to acquire the other half of a great combo. And the 17 TSE, certainly at the extreme of shift, is no match for the Super Elmar quality wise, but otoh, if you really need the shift, then that is it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted April 2, 2012 Share #6 Â Posted April 2, 2012 Did you code your 18mm? Any problems with colorshift?My Zeiss 18's mount was machined by Malcolm Taylor and then coded as Leica 18mm 3.4. With the latest firmware I don't find colour shift to be a significant issue. I certainly don't have any feeling of need to get the Leica 18mm lens. But again, I'm not doing architecture with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 2, 2012 Share #7 Â Posted April 2, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) In the latest LFI the SE 18 is presented as an interior architecture lens, with a nice shot by Carsten Fisher to prove it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertJRB Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share #8  Posted April 2, 2012 My Zeiss 18's mount was machined by Malcolm Taylor and then coded as Leica 18mm 3.4. With the latest firmware I don't find colour shift to be a significant issue. I certainly don't have any feeling of need to get the Leica 18mm lens. But again, I'm not doing architecture with it.  Okey, thanks  In the latest LFI the SE 18 is presented as an interior architecture lens, with a nice shot by Carsten Fisher to prove it  Do you mean version 02/2012? I have it in front of me but can't find that shot?  [edit] Okey, I see 03/12 is out allready Thanks http://www.lfi-online.de/ceemes/webfile/show/5793//__noattachment__=1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 2, 2012 Share #9 Â Posted April 2, 2012 No, 03/2012 It has an article on all current M lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted April 2, 2012 Share #10 Â Posted April 2, 2012 IÂ Did you code your 18mm? Any problems with colorshift? Â Cornerfix versus 21/2,8 profile for Zeiss 18mm on M9 Â Zeiss 18mm f/4 T* ZM on Leica M9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manolo Laguillo Posted April 3, 2012 Share #11  Posted April 3, 2012 I agree that at first sight the Canon 17mm TSE is apparently the best solution, given the magnitude of the assignment.  But if I had to sell my Zeiss 18mm (I have one) to buy the 17TSE + 5DII, I would not...  At maximum you will cash 800 euros for the 18mm.  Therefore I would try the M9 + 18mm first. Rent a M9 for that.  ...  I think 5 minutes of convergence correction is a little bit too much , with the right tool and some experience you will be able to perform the trick in only 2 minutes, or even less. I use Lightroom, and am very happy with the results.  And besides: what if the interiors are more or less comparable geometrically speaking? If that happens you can build a macro, and apply it as the starting point, and then fine tuning on it for each individual case.  ...  Stitching is time consuming as well, but perhaps not that much as correcting the verticals in PP. I do have the pano gear made in Germany by E. Hopf: PT4Pano. With it shooting a pano is very straightforward. 3 stitched vertical pictures made with the 18mm + M9 will give you a total horizontal angle of more than 110 degrees, and a vertical one of 90 degrees.  ...  Here are 2 pictures made with the 18mm and the M9. The Sagrada Familia was easy to make, I had a tripod. The Pantheon in Paris (have you read Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum";)) was not that easy: no tripod, 1600 ISO, at f.4.5, 1/30. Corrected in Cornerfix, and developed in LR3. Both are originally as you see them now: I mean there is no perspective correction in PP. The Pantheon picture suffers under a certain convergence of the verticals toward the bottom.  I choose these 2 cases because you can "easily" locate the viewing point, the place where the camera was. Remember: the 18mm horizontal angle = 90 degrees. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/176067-18mm-se-examples-on-m9-for-interior/?do=findComment&comment=1972098'>More sharing options...
RobertJRB Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share #12  Posted April 3, 2012 Thanks  I have the leica 18mm SE so with coding to use isn't the issue. I also don't have to sell it to fund the 5D and TSE.  Thing is beside the 5D and TSE story I was thinking of selling the 18mm and my M8 to fund a M9, keeping my 28 cron as widest lens. The 24mm (the 18mm on the m8) is the widest lens I ever had, only used a 50mm for years, and later added a 35mm. So for my personal taste I think I won't need it.  But with the need of a wide lens because of the project I thought maybe it can be a good idea to combine both by keeping the 18 and use that. I absolute love the pictures the 18 give me on the M8 so would like to give it at least a try on a M9.   Nevertheless I tried my M8 yesterday with the 18mm for a test location and the framing is a big issue. The external finder is hard to look into (most of the time the camera's back is against the wall because of the small spaces. And a lot of pictures were wrongly framed so needed cropping. With the 5D you will have the same issue with the wall, but with liveview the framing will me way more precise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 3, 2012 Share #13 Â Posted April 3, 2012 You might like to try the Zeiss finder. It is far superior to the Leica one ( not in precision, but in eye relief and brightness). I find the SE 18 a more than excellent performer on the M9, but I cannot advise you in your specialty, as I am not an architectural photographer. I did try the Zeiss and Leica side by side on the M9, and really preferred the Leica shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertJRB Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share #14 Â Posted April 3, 2012 You might like to try the Zeiss finder. It is far superior to the Leica one ( not in precision, but in eye relief and brightness). I find the SE 18 a more than excellent performer on the M9, but I cannot advise you in your specialty, as I am not an architectural photographer. I did try the Zeiss and Leica side by side on the M9, and really preferred the Leica shots. Â I hear a lot of good stories of the zeiss finders, so will try it if I keep the 18mm and need an 18mm finder, trough I don't really have problems with my 24mm leica finder (plastic one) when I normally use the lens. Only for precise framing it just doesn't really work well. Â For myself its clear already. If the job goes on it will be the 5D set, Can always later on decide if I will keep the 18 Â btw, I did the same comparison between the zeiss and leica and found both to be quite equal to each other. But big enough to prefer the leica. And the handling of the leica made it complete. Only downside of the leica is the huge 77mm filterring (and its price) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted April 3, 2012 Share #15 Â Posted April 3, 2012 Filter? What are you going to use a filter for? The SE has a solid screw-in hood with a good front cap. This gives the lens sufficient protection to calm all but the most timid. Â The old man from the Kodachrome Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoshawnuff Posted April 3, 2012 Share #16 Â Posted April 3, 2012 the framing is a big issue. The external finder is hard to look into (most of the time the camera's back is against the wall because of the small spaces. And a lot of pictures were wrongly framed so needed cropping.With the 5D you will have the same issue with the wall, but with liveview the framing will me way more precise. Â If you wind up using the Leica and your 18mm in the future to supplement the Tilt Shift, an angle viewfinder such as this Voigtlander version might be worth trying. They don't offer an 18mm attachment, but the 25mm would work well with your M8, and even the 15mm attachment would be better than guessing if you get the M9... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 3, 2012 Share #17 Â Posted April 3, 2012 Maybe I missed it, but if you just have a project to consider, why not rent whatever you need instead of buying? Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted April 4, 2012 Share #18 Â Posted April 4, 2012 Just buy a used M9 and be done with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertJRB Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share #19  Posted April 4, 2012 Maybe I missed it, but if you just have a project to consider, why not rent whatever you need instead of buying? Jeff  Because of the price. Its a total of 120 houses. So with 3 houses a day I need the camera for 40 day's. At the local rent service this will cost me 2013 euro for the camera alone.  I will buy the 5D and TSE without tax (btw in dutch ) so the price is 19 % under the normal price, and it equals the used prices. Normally about 20% under marked. So this will save a lot of money.  Filter? What are you going to use a filter for? The SE has a solid screw-in hood with a good front cap. This gives the lens sufficient protection to calm all but the most timid. The old man from the Kodachrome Age  I have the 77mm filter holder for the 18mm only to use ND filters with it. When I don't need the ND I use the hood. Don't really like it because the filters are huge and I need to buy everything double. 39 or 46mm for my normal lenses and 77mm for the 18mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manolo Laguillo Posted April 4, 2012 Share #20 Â Posted April 4, 2012 Robert, I infer from your words that you did shoot with the 18mm handheld, and therefore found the framing needed cropping in PP. Â May I insist? If you work on that 120 houses project with the 18mm + M9 plus tripod, you will find, by error and trial (ie controlling via LCD), that the making of the pictures will be easy. Â I am specialized in architecture, cityscape and landscape photography, and out of my experience of many years I am of the opinion that using the widest possible lens is not always the best approach: sometimes more is less... Â Â And yes, of course, for the Leica 18mm you can have a lot more money than for the Zeiss 18mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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