pico Posted March 16, 2012 Share #41 Â Posted March 16, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) IBut that's life, unfortunately. And as long as supply and demand determines prices, there will always be things we can't afford. Â Even the very wealthy have limits. I've a friend who is a billionaire and was looking for a new car. I suggest a Bugatti. She said, "No. That's for Forbes Top 100 types. Besides, I don't want to be that exposed." She also quit film because it was too expensive (she was being ripped off by the local processor.) Â By comparison the Leica is a middle class prestige item. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Hi pico, Take a look here The Price of Leica Products and Services. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted March 16, 2012 Share #42 Â Posted March 16, 2012 Pricing? Compared to what? Germany has high labour costs. So does Japan these days. The costs of production are what they are. Â Have you seen me discuss price rationale anywhere? Â I give up. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornello Posted March 16, 2012 Share #43 Â Posted March 16, 2012 Even the very wealthy have limits. I've a friend who is a billionaire and was looking for a new car. I suggest a Bugatti. She said, "No. That's for Forbes Top 100 types. Besides, I don't want to be that exposed." She also quit film because it was too expensive (she was being ripped off by the local processor.)Â By comparison the Leica is a middle class prestige item. . Â Â Precisely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornello Posted March 16, 2012 Share #44  Posted March 16, 2012 Have you seen me discuss price rationale anywhere?  I give up.  Jeff   I'm not sure what you mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 16, 2012 Share #45 Â Posted March 16, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean. Â Exactly. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornello Posted March 16, 2012 Share #46  Posted March 16, 2012 Exactly. Jeff  Well you might try elaborating so everyone can understand you. It's all well and good to have some ideas in your own mind, but unless you share them with others we haven't the foggiest idea what your thoughts are. We are not clairvoyant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 16, 2012 Share #47 Â Posted March 16, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well you might try elaborating so everyone can understand you. It's all well and good to have some ideas in your own mind, but unless you share them with others we haven't the foggiest idea what your thoughts are. We are not clairvoyant. Â Value is personal, price is fixed. Is it really that difficult? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornello Posted March 16, 2012 Share #48 Â Posted March 16, 2012 Value is personal, price is fixed. Is it really that difficult? Â Not at all, but to suggest that "Leica prices are too high" prompts the question: "Compared to what?". By what measure? If you mean merely "The prices Leica asks for their most expensive goods are beyond my means" then I might say "earn more income" "cut some expenses" or "take out a loan" or something. Â In this case "too high" means "beyond my means". If you mean "Leica charges more than they should" then I must ask "by what measure?" How would you arrive at this conclusion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 16, 2012 Share #49 Â Posted March 16, 2012 And that fixed price is set by the seller, for reasons only insiders understand. The buyer makes an assessment based on his/her own valuation. Take it or leave it. Period. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornello Posted March 16, 2012 Share #50  Posted March 16, 2012 And that fixed price is set by the seller, for reasons only insiders understand. The buyer makes an assessment based on his/her own valuation. Take it or leave it. Period. Jeff  I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted March 16, 2012 Share #51  Posted March 16, 2012 In my most humble opinion, if a person cannot afford a Leica, then he should move on to what he can afford and continue to make pictures because almost nobody can tell the difference between a Leica shot and another good setup. You cannot make a bad picture of a good opportunity because the equipment is not Leica - unless it's some kind of stepped-upon plastic lens camera and even then it would not be worse than some of the greatest pictures ever made.  Make pictures.  A great deal of the Leica myth comes from people in a piddling little niche who think it is expensive, therefore the pictures are so precious. They are not the big spenders of the world - and the big spenders are not worth noting either. In the world of exorbitance, Leicas are well down the ladder.  Make pictures and be happy. .    Some 20 years ago I couldn't afford a Leica camera. I bought my first Nikon F3 in Tokyo. I had to starve myself, because I could not buy a Nikon F3 and spend money on food at the same time. I lost 10 kilo's in 14 days. I sold the F3 for a demo Elmarit 2,8/28mm years later. I still have the Elmarit, maybe as a symbol. Just to remember how much money I spend that day.  I have bought a lot of Leica gear since that day. Sometimes thinking: " that's a lot of money you're spending for a " Non Nikon F3 " .  Nowaday's my wife spends more money on horses, than I can spend on camera's.  Everything is relative. I know for sure that my best picture was not a Leica made one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted March 16, 2012 Share #52  Posted March 16, 2012 snipped.... Everything is relative. I know for sure that my best picture was not a Leica made one.  You're a lucky man! My best pic is still eluding me. If I get it, it will probably be on a Leica, but no guarantee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted March 17, 2012 Share #53 Â Posted March 17, 2012 No doubt Leica prices have gotten crazy. Scary even. And it's not all due to inflation, or fluctuations to currencies. A lot of it is just plain old demand. Â But consider these phrases: Â "older M models" "Zeiss lenses" "Voigtlander lenses" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted March 17, 2012 Share #54 Â Posted March 17, 2012 Pricing? Compared to what? Germany has high labour costs. So does Japan these days. The costs of production are what they are. Â German labor cost? Costs of production are what they are? LOL. The Pana Leicas are evidence of different pricing strategies, and give some indication of the magnitude of the red dot premium. With other products it's quite obvious as well. Google prices of Leica PVC lens caps, "made in Germany" and for sure hand made by expensive German workers:rolleyes: Â "Leica" D-Lux5: USD799 Panasonic LX5: USD 350 (or less) Â "Leica" D-Lux5 EVF: USD 280 Panasonic LX5 EVF:USD 160 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted March 17, 2012 Share #55 Â Posted March 17, 2012 Leica cares not one whit what you want and can afford. They look at their market, and make a guess how much they can sell each item for. I am also sure cost of manufacture and other business expenses only enter into it to the extent they make some profit. It is not a cost plus calculation. Â As long as they can sell everything they make, they will raise prices to maximize profit. When sales drop off, prices will stop moving and may lower. Â Right now it is a sellers market and they have pricing power due to limited supply and high demand. Â All businesses work this way except non profits. Â The prices have been going up since 1980, first because sales were low and they had to cover fixed costs, and now because they can. Â I am sure you shop banks for the best interest you can get. They do the same, sort of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted March 17, 2012 Share #56 Â Posted March 17, 2012 I think you're right in saying that the prices have gone up. Also because they can afford it, but I was watching a t.v. program about the Iphone 4s and Ipad made in China lately. Don't you think the prices of that gear would be higher, much higher, when it was made in Germany? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Verrips Posted March 17, 2012 Share #57 Â Posted March 17, 2012 To me expensive means to me: to much money for the value of the product. I don't think that is what is going on.... Â The Leica production process has high standards, achieved by many handcraft; Handcraft has it's value and cost more than fully automated processes; Leica products have a longer lifecycle, than most other camerabrands; Leica has a smaller marketshare; Leica is a premium brand; Leica has to keep it's magic (in product, design, price, limited editions etc); Leica lenses have good resale value; Leica Solms has an excellent service. Â If i would like to buy a Porsche, because it can bring me from A to B, it is not the most smart economic decision. there are other options! But if i love driving, if i love technic & mechanic, if i cherish the product, if i love the sound and if i can afford it, i might buy a Porsche. But there are other (sports)cars that will do the practical job. Â I would never buy a new Leica & new Leica lenses i i couldn't afford it. I think i would buy a film M with 1 Voigtlander lens. Â Enjoy photography, enjoy Leica! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 17, 2012 Share #58  Posted March 17, 2012 Since I bought my new 50mm Summicron in around 2000 the price has tripled. When I was thinking of selling my Tri-Elmar for a 28mm Summilux in 2004 or so I expected to get just over £1000. That's what Leica lenses sold for then, and they were considered expensive.  Leica were in big trouble financially and decided to price their way to solvency, and the price of used lenses followed those of the new. That's fine, it's their business, but it means that I can no longer afford new Leica kit as I once could. I fully realise that's my 'problem'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 17, 2012 Share #59 Â Posted March 17, 2012 My Leicas have lost far less money for me than my Canons. M8s still hold far better relative and actual values than their contemporary Canon bodies. Lenses are similarly high in resale value. Â I wonder how many Leica owners would reduce their labour costs in order to make a cheaper product when the market is buoyant for their product? Enough said? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted March 17, 2012 Share #60  Posted March 17, 2012 I think we all know there is and always will be an element of strategic pricing and marketing. Any retail business that prices cost+ is missing a trick. I think Leica potentially used to miss a trick, but that's no longer the case (shame)  Made (or final assembly) in Germany, modest production runs and very high quality material cost, plus R&D etc means Leica will always cost more than 'alternatives'  The very good news with Leica is low depreciation and if you can be comfortable buying second hand then it's very low capital risk. I could pull a spreadsheet together to compare alternatives together with RPI/CPI loss of return of cash in the bank etc, etc and I suspect you would be pleasantly surprised that short of capital outlay the real ownership cost is not much more, maybe less than Nikon/Canon.  Plus they are bloomin luvley  PS I do think they are overpriced for the actual item.....But accept it all the same Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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