iphoenix Posted February 21, 2012 Share #41 Posted February 21, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) .. that listing stunk to such high heaven i don't mean to go on about it- but the way some people have played with the idea that this listing may be legitimate, trying to find explanations for the inexplicable - worries me... Jaques, I agree that the listing raises (raised?) many questions regarding its' legitimacy. You will note from my earlier post that despite putting forward an inheritance as being a possibility for the sale, I did not believe it to be the case. A legal premise I have abided by in a previous life, is that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Do I take it that you have proof of illegitimacy in this case? Regards, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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andybarton Posted February 21, 2012 Share #42 Posted February 21, 2012 There's another saying that "A fool and his money are soon parted" And "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck" That listing looked and quacked like a scam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted February 21, 2012 Share #43 Posted February 21, 2012 As I said above in not so few words, I agree. There is a large amount of circumstantial evidence; however all possibilities should be considered - or at least put forward - and has Ebay yet cancelled the auction, despite a member's report? It hadn't last time I checked. Have I done wrong by the forum? Regards, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted February 21, 2012 Share #44 Posted February 21, 2012 As I said above in not so few words, I agree. There is a large amount of circumstantial evidence; however all possibilities should be considered - or at least put forward - and has Ebay yet cancelled the auction, despite a member's report? It hadn't last time I checked. Have I done wrong by the forum? Regards, David +1 ..... I always give everybody the benefit of the doubt, with presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Before I remove any doubt, I act accordingly to protect myself. That was the reason for my 'doubting' the scam - I did not find the 'evidence' as conclusive as it was / is in other obvious scams. Once I satisfied myself by contacting the seller and not receiving a reply, I reported the auction to ebay as scam. And - unfortunately, eBay has decided not to pull the auction (yet). Cheers, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 22, 2012 Share #45 Posted February 22, 2012 'innocent until proven guilty' is a great legal concept, no doubt. But in this case about the only way you could prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt- is by letting yourself get scammed. I was not suggesting that anyone here has done anything wrong- or is in serious danger- I was just noting the slippery slope that is 'scam judging'... I have been buying and selling cameras on the internet since 2001- I have seen MANY scams. A few years ago I sold a camera to a buyer in the USA who turned out to be the CEO of a major international company. All went fine. However about a month after the sale he emailed me and asked where his second camera was... I emailed back saying 'what second camera?'... He replied that after our initial sale on ebay he received an email supposedly from 'me'- offering him a second camera at a great price. Only this time 'I' offered it outside of ebay and asked that payment be wired (to an Italian address) instead of paid via paypal to my Australian address as before... As soon as I read his email I realised what had happened. SCAMMED. What I couldn't believe was that he had fallen for it- and that he was also a CEO of a large corporation. There were about 100 warning lights going off at once- contact was via a different email to mine, payment was via a different method, the payment was sent to a different country, etc. I explained the basics of ebay buying and safety to the unfortunate victim, he accepted his gross stupidity in the matter and that was that. Some turd in Italy had $650 arrive in his western union account- he would have withdrawn it and walked away free and easy.... Extending the benefit of the doubt in human nature when shopping on the internet is NOT necessarily a good idea. The above scam example stunk to high heaven and never should have succeeded- yet it did. I have seen far more complex and clever scams: a few years ago an ebay seller appeared selling pre-paid Australia Post postage satchels in bulk. They were being sold at around half their actual value. The seller was aiming directly at ebay sellers who use these satchels. I couldn't believe it as there is no way you can sell these things for half what they cost- I used the satchels but didn't bid even though everything 'looked' legitimate. I watched as the sellers positive feedback piled up- buyers were actually getting what they paid for- there was no doubt. I still didn't buy- however others must have been watching as when the seller suddenly increased the volume of lots he had on sale they sold out within a few days. At last the Barb on the Hook: the seller had actually sold maybe 5000 dollars worth of satchels for half their value- and shipped them- losing maybe 2500 dollars. A wise investment it turns out: having sattisfied many buyers that a deal too good to be true was seemingly true 100,000 dollars worth of satchels were listed and sold in a few days. Suddenly the seller dissapeared- the bad feeback began to roll in "Where are my satchels!!! No Reply To emails!! Ebay contacted" etc, etc, etc, etc. The seller was long gone with 100,000 dollars off a $2500 investment. This scam was artwork: the seller targeted ebay sellers- those with knowledge and experience of the system. There was nothing obvious in the listings or feedback that could indicate what was going to happen. The only clue was that the deal really was 'too good to be true'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted February 22, 2012 Share #46 Posted February 22, 2012 Jaques, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we were both addressing the problem (Scam??), but from different directions. Yours placing all the arguments why it should be one; mine raising points which should be considered (and accepted or rejected) before coming to a conclusion. By the way, I totally agree that all the evidence suggests that the auction of this camera is a scam. Otherwise, I would have bid on it. I wouldn't mind a $100,000 or so profit myself :D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted February 26, 2012 Share #47 Posted February 26, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Winning bid: £11,100.00 Seller Feedback 0 Winner 94 Let's see how well this goes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 27, 2012 Share #48 Posted February 27, 2012 "this listing has been ended by the seller because the item is no longer available".... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted February 27, 2012 Share #49 Posted February 27, 2012 Well I am pleased that is the conclusion, it has saved the buyer over £11,000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 27, 2012 Share #50 Posted February 27, 2012 Unless the item has been removed after he sent his Western Union order off... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted February 27, 2012 Share #51 Posted February 27, 2012 Feedback/item From Buyer/price Date/time Attempt to defraud! synaps77 ( 94) 27-Feb-12 10:38 Leica Leicavit MP Black Paint W/50mm f2, Lens 1958 (#290671441755)£11,100.00 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted February 28, 2012 Share #52 Posted February 28, 2012 Feedback/item From Buyer/price Date/time Attempt to defraud! synaps77 ( 94) 27-Feb-12 10:38 Leica Leicavit MP Black Paint W/50mm f2, Lens 1958 (#290671441755)£11,100.00 Does Ebay report such matters to the police, or is action left up to the person "winning" the auction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted February 28, 2012 Share #53 Posted February 28, 2012 Unfortunately, eBay only pretends to care. The only real interest they have (along with PayPal) is to collect selling fees. Their 'customer service' is an oxymoron..... They cannot report to the police because, the seller can be anywhere - he's registered on eBay.uk but, that means nothing. He could be in Antarctica and eBay would not have a clue. I reported the auction to eBay more than a week ago and am sure that I was not the only one. They let the auction run its course and the seller is still a registered user. All he has to do is to create a new eBay identity and try again. Best, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 28, 2012 Share #54 Posted February 28, 2012 it is more than possible that the account itself is owned by a legitimate person but has been hacked. This is a standard practice with scams like this. So that feedback would be quite unfortunate if that is the case... and ebay absolutely does not care and will not take any responsibility. 100%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted February 28, 2012 Share #55 Posted February 28, 2012 They cannot report to the police because, the seller can be anywhere - he's registered on eBay.uk but, that means nothing. He could be in Antarctica and eBay would not have a clue. I reported the auction to eBay more than a week ago and am sure that I was not the only one. They let the auction run its course and the seller is still a registered user. All he has to do is to create a new eBay identity and try again. Best, Jan it is more than possible that the account itself is owned by a legitimate person but has been hacked. This is a standard practice with scams like this. So that feedback would be quite unfortunate if that is the case... and ebay absolutely does not care and will not take any responsibility. 100%. I think I've been lucky with my purchases so far. However, as has been stated in this thread, the "bad guys" normally give clues to their scams. Also, I don't go international and only pay by direct bank t/fer (as in going to the local branch of the seller's bank, paying cash and getting confirmation the account name is correct) or bank cheque . Paypal, Credit card, or Computer T/fer account to account are not for me. So far, so good; fingers crossed; etc.; etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted February 28, 2012 Share #56 Posted February 28, 2012 My latest M fit lens (Zeiss) completed yesterday was from a London dealer whose ratings I can trust and with a warranty. It was £100 lower in price than the average of the last three e-bay sales completed and the lens will arrive today without doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 28, 2012 Share #57 Posted February 28, 2012 i should state here: I have purchased 100's of cameras and lenses and other items off ebay. I use it all the time. I have had cameras arrive with issues that the seller didn't note- I have had the odd parcel get delayed by months but I have never been completely ripped off. Overall I have done very well and saved a lot of money. Ebay sellers are often fine if you understand the (somewhat evil) system and use common sense. If you are clueless you can be in trouble... just like everywhere else in life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2012 Share #58 Posted February 28, 2012 it is more than possible that the account itself is owned by a legitimate person but has been hacked. This is a standard practice with scams like this. So that feedback would be quite unfortunate if that is the case... and ebay absolutely does not care and will not take any responsibility. 100%. I keep seeing this "hacked account" excuse. One should think that after a few years of this eBay would have paid some attention to server security.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted February 28, 2012 Share #59 Posted February 28, 2012 I keep seeing this "hacked account" excuse. One should think that after a few years of this eBay would have paid some attention to server security.... Jaap, As much as I would like to blame eBay, hacked accounts happen due to seller's naivité or on-line inexperience. I am getting at least one email every week, asking me to log into eBay or PayPal to correct various 'issues'. Some of those emails even have my name in the header - both PayPal and eBay claim that their emails will have the real name (not a user name) and will not be addressed as 'Dear eBay user' etc. And some emails looked pretty genuine...... All one has to do is check the properties of the email to determine where it came from or, check one's 'My eBay' page for the message. If t is not there, the email is an attempt to get one's username and password. An inexperienced eBayer or one with limited computer experience may fall for these phishing attempts and this is where 'hacked accounts' happen. If you ever get these, forward the whole email as an attachment to spoof@ebay.com or spoof@paypal.com . I hope it is allowed to post those email addresses - if not, moderator please change it by replacing the @ with an 'at' or whatever...... Like Jaques, I have been 'eBaying' for a very long time and bought and sold 1000's of items. My M7, 2x M8, Digilux 2, many lenses etc. came via eBay. So far, I have not been 'scammed' (touch wood); bought a few items where the description was somewhat optimistic and the seller claimed ignorance. When dealing on eBay, I have to repeat again and again - common sense, common sense and ......... Unfortunately, not so common anymore..... Cheers, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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