hoferat Posted February 15, 2012 Share #21 Posted February 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) i was outbid at 7990. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Hi hoferat, Take a look here This time he’s gone too far!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Planistigmat Posted February 15, 2012 Share #22 Posted February 15, 2012 I really doubt that seller has this. To be sure that seller doesn't have the camera one could ask him about additional photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 16, 2012 Share #23 Posted February 16, 2012 When you are trying to work out if an evilbay add is genuine feedback can only offer incomplete information. It is better to use the classic test: 'If it sounds too good to be true it probably is'. Many fraudulent listings on the bay result from accounts being hijacked and taken over temporarily by scammers. In these cases the given account can have 10,000 perfect feedback, or whatever. Basically the feedback is quite meaningless. This type of hijacking often involves the sale of expensive items, and cameras are quite common. In general the pictures and description have been stolen from other genuine ebay listings- or as in this case- from another website (westlich). A good idea if you are concerned about a given listing is to look at the sellers feeback to see what type of item they have been selling in the past. When you see a seller who specialises in selling tulip bulbs for a few dollars each- but who is currently listing Hasselblad digital cameras for a 10th of their true value... you can safely bet something is 'fishy'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share #24 Posted February 16, 2012 Leica Leicavit MP Black Paint W/50mm f2, Lens 1958 | eBay in this case no feed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoferat Posted February 16, 2012 Share #25 Posted February 16, 2012 i just bidded 6666 euro - please overbid me, so that the scammer is counting the money already in his head Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted February 17, 2012 Share #26 Posted February 17, 2012 Westlicht, from Nov. 2009: MP Black Paint (1958) Very late black painted original MP in mint condition with matching Leicavit MP and black painted Summicron 2/5cm no.1468274 (clean lenses, cap). The camera was once restored by Leica in the early 1970's and then never used again. All in perfect working order. (Serial no. MP-143, condition: A-) Opening Bid: 24,000 EUR Estimate: 45,000-50,000 EUR. I am sure that if I spent more time (which I don't have right now) , I could find when the camera sold and for how much. Beware! Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted February 17, 2012 Share #27 Posted February 17, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, here is the link: https://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=175091&acat=175091&_ssl=off Lot no 130, sold for 31,800 Euro including premium on December 9, 2009. The photos in the eBay auction are different from the ones on Westlicht so, who knows. However - why would a person with zero feedback be trying to sell such a rare camera on eBay is beyond me. Wouldn't surprise me if this was a scam too. The only way to find out would be to ask the seller for extra photos of the camera with the latest issue of the Economist or some daily paper under it. Cheers, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 17, 2012 Share #28 Posted February 17, 2012 Well, here is the link: https://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=175091&acat=175091&_ssl=off Lot no 130, sold for 31,800 Euro including premium on December 9, 2009. The photos in the eBay auction are different from the ones on Westlicht so, who knows. However - why would a person with zero feedback be trying to sell such a rare camera on eBay is beyond me. Wouldn't surprise me if this was a scam too. The only way to find out would be to ask the seller for extra photos of the camera with the latest issue of the Economist or some daily paper under it. Cheers, Jan it's most definitely a scam- I would be amazed if it wasn't. no doubt. you don't need more images... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted February 17, 2012 Share #29 Posted February 17, 2012 it's most definitely a scam- I would be amazed if it wasn't. no doubt. you don't need more images... I am not convinced 100% that this is a scam. As I said earlier, it is indeed strange that somebody freshly registered on eBay is selling such a rare camera as his first item. Surely, the camera would fetch more if the seller had more selling history on eBay (assuming it is a genuine auction). What any smart buyer should do is to ask for a couple of additional photos of the camera next to a curent daily publication. Best, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted February 18, 2012 Share #30 Posted February 18, 2012 Stolen?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 18, 2012 Share #31 Posted February 18, 2012 you would have to be an idiot to bid on that... and I have ZERO doubt it is a fake listing/scam. Would you sell your 35000 Euro camera on ebay as you first ebay sale? And if you did- would you list it starting at a very low price? You would have to be mad. I am shocked you would even consider it was possibly legitimate. It screams FRAUD... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 18, 2012 Share #32 Posted February 18, 2012 five minutes on the google and the plot thickens. they are not the westlich photos- but they are freely available images from the net- this camera has 'sold' on ebay before- last time for over 200,000: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106679 " What any smart buyer should do is to ask for a couple of additional photos of the camera next to a curent daily publication."that would only be half smart- assuming the seller was not a whiz with photoshop- and you received the pictures- all you would then know is that the 'seller' has access to the camera. Certainly no guarantee that the winning bidder would also get access... On ebay you don't only want to know that the seller actually has the goods- you also want to be fairly sure the seller will actually send the goods... this listing already looks so suspect it would be foolish indeed to have anything to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted February 18, 2012 Share #33 Posted February 18, 2012 Stolen?? Just a further question; could it be being sold by someone who has inherited it? In case you're wondering, I don't believe it either. Just putting this possibility into the mix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 18, 2012 Share #34 Posted February 18, 2012 If you'd inherited it, it's hard to believe you wouldn't know what it was worth. "That's Dad's old camera he never used and kept in that locked glass case in his study with the fridge thing in the base. Flog it on eBay" Nah... unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 18, 2012 Share #35 Posted February 18, 2012 Sherlock Holmes would first eliminate the obvious before moving to the less likely.... in this case we need no such rigour. We don't need to speculate on obscure reasons as to why someone would sell this camera on ebay- when we have the far simpler explanation: IT IS A FRAUD the 'Seller' does not have the camera! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted February 18, 2012 Share #36 Posted February 18, 2012 five minutes on the google and the plot thickens. they are not the westlich photos- but they are freely available images from the net- this camera has 'sold' on ebay before- last time for over 200,000: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106679 Jaques, if you indeed use Google's help to its full extent, you will find the sale you are referring to was completed by an eBay seller who not only is still actively trading on eBay but, is also dealing with rare Leica equipment. He happens to be registered as living in my 'neck of the woods' but is not familiar to me. ..... On ebay you don't only want to know that the seller actually has the goods- you also want to be fairly sure the seller will actually send the goods... This is a risk you run with every eBay auction and that is why posts like this one are important because they raise the awareness of potential buyers. I would be inclined to believe that this is a scam but, am still not 100% convinced as you seem to be. Having said that however, if I were searching for an original MP like this one, I would not bid on this one...... I did send the seller a query - let's see what comes back, if anything. Cheers, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted February 20, 2012 Share #37 Posted February 20, 2012 The seller did not reply to my question and, I am not the only one. A bidder from Germany cancelled his bid for the same reason - no communication from the seller. Reported to eBay and hope for the best. Cheers, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 20, 2012 Share #38 Posted February 20, 2012 If it were a camera I would be interested in I would have bid on it and insisted on collection in person. My British cousin has a rather impressive dog... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SideB Posted February 20, 2012 Share #39 Posted February 20, 2012 If it were a camera I would be interested in I would have bid on it and insisted on collection in person. My British cousin has a rather impressive dog... The only way... You'd also be wise to insist on meetine in a public place where you are unlikely to be mugged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 21, 2012 Share #40 Posted February 21, 2012 rocks beats paper, paper beats stone- and gun beats dog... that listing stunk to such high heaven- to even consider that it may have been legitimate is to play with fire. Scammers thrive on peoples foolish hope and 'will to believe' that they have 'found' a great deal. Even when the alarm bells are ringing out some poor fools walk closer to the edge hoping to grab a bargain from the teeth of the monster... Bravado has no place when dealing with (potentially) organised crime.... People think it is fun to taunt internet scammers and play the 'vigilante'- that is until they find out the people they are dealing with are expert internet users (ex KGB?) and can (inter alia) trace you IP, fry your cities servers, steal your identity... purely out of spite. i don't mean to go on about it- but the way some people have played with the idea that this listing may be legitimate, trying to find explanations for the inexplicable - worries me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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