Nikon D800E vs Leica S2

[Nick Rains]

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The value of the D800 is the incentive for Leica to release S3 with a resolution of 6000x9000 and ISO 3200 as soon as possible. In terms of Nikon D800 it's the end of resolution - in terms of Leica S-System the best is yet to come.

 

best regards

Lik

 

It's on record that that Leica does not intend to chase megapixels and will be concentrating on improving image quality in future releases. 'Quality not quantity' was the gist of what Stephan Schulz said to me during a visit to Solms last August.

[peterv]

Quality not quantity sounds good but quality and quantity sounds even better.

 

The pixel density of the NEX 7 already equals ~ 54 MP (6000 x 9000) on a FF and 3200 ISO isn't all that bad on this little camera.

 

This year or 2013 will probably bring 54 MP in a FF so 6000 x 9000 for a 30 x 45 sensor sounds quite acceptable.

 

An S3 with its large 30 x 45 mm should have a sensor able to deliver both quality and quantity for Leica to be competitive and to stay ahead of the upcoming FF Canikon crowd.

[mjh]

Which practical issue are you trying so solve here?

[peterv]

Hi Michael, for me there's no practical issue that needs to be solved.

I'm just saying that for a hypothetical 30 x 45 mm S3 6000 x 9000 as Lik suggests would not seem too far fetched with current/future sensor technology.

Or would you say pixel pitch is going to be too high for a good quality file?

I'm under the impression that S lenses certainly could deliver for that much resolution.

[Wolf96]

Why a lot of people need more and more pixel and then they print A4 or smaller.

I don't mean the S2, Hassy or or owner, but a NEX 7 with 34 Mill pixel is to much.

[k-hawinkler]

Why a lot of people need more and more pixel and then they print A4 or smaller.

I don't mean the S2, Hassy or or owner, but a NEX 7 with 34 Mill pixel is to much.

 

 

Indeed, it has only 24 MP! :D

[Wolf96]

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Indeed, it has only 24 MP! :D

 

Sorry, I mean 24 and not 34.

[darylgo]

Why a lot of people need more and more pixel and then they print A4 or smaller.

I don't mean the S2, Hassy or or owner, but a NEX 7 with 34 Mill pixel is to much.

 

Too much for who? For you? "A lot of people" have purchased this camera, it is ground-breaking as is the whole NEX line, if Leica had designed and produced this camera it would have garnered much praise and at 5 times the price many would love to own it but find it unaffordable. Anyway, my wife loves it and I do also..... I don't have to buy her a Leica.

[tom0511]

It's on record that that Leica does not intend to chase megapixels and will be concentrating on improving image quality in future releases. 'Quality not quantity' was the gist of what Stephan Schulz said to me during a visit to Solms last August.

 

Sounds good to me. I am glad that Leica is not following every "trend".

My feeling is that MP and noise at ultra high ISO are discussed way too much.

[Nick Rains]

My feeling is that MP and noise at ultra high ISO are discussed way too much.

 

Hmm, high ISO performance directly relates to high s/n ratio and thus increased usable dynamic range. The higher the s/n ratio the better the lowest values (shadows) are distinguished from signal noise.

 

Agree about chasing megapixels, but lower noise is a worthy goal.

[KM-25]

Nothing I have seen from these D800 images gives me cause for concern. There are a lot of pixels, sure, but the fine detail is simply not resolved to the levels that the S lenses are capable off. Those sample images lack accutance IMHO, the fine lines are just that bit smudged and I feel that the sensor is out-resolving the lenses. The opposite is true with the S2.

 

Then get ready to be stunned. A friend of mine who shoots fashion and large POP ads in NYC shot both his 24 1.4 and 100/2 Makro Planar with the 800e said he was floored with it, so much so he is selling his S2 and three lenses. He uses a lot....and I mean a lot of killer bounced light sources in his work, said that the low light and still high res of the 800e are reason enough alone to cut his losses on the S2 system.

 

Now, his needs are very specific, but it gives you an idea on how his whole high res, good enough lenses game is about to get real interesting.

 

By the way, I worked for AFP in Brissy for about 6 months in 2001, covered the Goodwill Games, did 8 big magazine articles including Humpbacks in Hervey Bay and a month in Tassie, great side of your country.

[Rewi]

Then get ready to be stunned. A friend of mine who shoots fashion and large POP ads in NYC shot both his 24 1.4 and 100/2 Makro Planar with the 800e said he was floored with it, so much so he is selling his S2 and three lenses.

 

Just wondering how has your friend dealt with moire from the D800E? has he found it to be an issue? what software removal did he use? NX Capture moire fix? any info much appreciated

 

Cheers!

[CalArts 99]

Here are some new files posted up from the D800 and D800E. Click on them for full size. You can open the raw files in LR4.

 

Fotopolis.pl: Nikon D800 i D800E - zdj

[mtomalty]

It's on record that that Leica does not intend to chase megapixels and will be concentrating on improving image quality in future releases. .

 

 

Isn't it also on the record that Leica had a solution for 'R' system users some 3-4 years ago

months before they abandoned the line

 

 

As someone with 2 D800's on order and also uses the S2 regularly I feel comfortable assuming

the D800 files won't be on par with those from the S2 or any equivalent medium format option

The files should be a significant jump forward over anything currently available for the 35mm

platform and comes at a price point that is unheard of for new technology of this resolution.

 

Mark

[MikeD700]

Well, you must not have then a TE 135/4 in your collection.

Here are some full size images with that lens that, I believe, speak for themselves.

 

2011.02.10 Bandelier from above - winklers' Photos

2011.03.29-30 Views from Hill - winklers' Photos

2010-01-26 Santa Fe, Ski Area - winklers' Photos

 

Best, K-H.

 

KHW, as much as I appreciate and value your views, aired on this forum, I don't see spectacular images, just very good images. Of course, I might be missing a lot.

 

Please elaborate on why these images, taken with that lens, are so remarkable?

[mwilliamsphotography]

Then get ready to be stunned. A friend of mine who shoots fashion and large POP ads in NYC shot both his 24 1.4 and 100/2 Makro Planar with the 800e said he was floored with it, so much so he is selling his S2 and three lenses. He uses a lot....and I mean a lot of killer bounced light sources in his work, said that the low light and still high res of the 800e are reason enough alone to cut his losses on the S2 system.

 

Now, his needs are very specific, but it gives you an idea on how his whole high res, good enough lenses game is about to get real interesting.

 

By the way, I worked for AFP in Brissy for about 6 months in 2001, covered the Goodwill Games, did 8 big magazine articles including Humpbacks in Hervey Bay and a month in Tassie, great side of your country.

 

Can you provide a link to some of these images? I've read a lot of words about the D800, and it has piqued my interest. However, every RAW download and posted image I've been able to find are hardly stunning in any sense of the word. M9 files look better to my eye.

 

I shot with the 24 meg D3X and Zeiss ZFs as well as the nano-coated Nikon lenses, and found those files somewhat flat and lifeless with an odd midtone response that required various post processing techniques to mitigate it in each different lighting circumstance. Way to much work.

 

I see the same dull, flat and lifeless look and feel from every D800 file I can find on the internet. High resolution is a small part of a beautiful photograph, and all I am seeing so far are clinically resolved pics that have the image dynamics of a point and shoot.

 

BTW, I test drove a 24 meg Sony A77 the other day using the same Ziess optics I use on a A900, and observed the same lack of image dynamics I'm seeing with the D800. High res (that equates to 36 meg FF), and lacking the image qualities I look for. I will stick with the Sony A900 for the time being.

 

-Marc

[Jeff S]

For me, prints tell the story, not screen shots. And for outstanding prints, there's as much or more to be gained IMO in maximizing other links in the processing chain beyond the camera and lens, as long as the latter are sufficient.

 

I have a friend who shoots mostly with the M9, 5DIII or large format (generally 5x7). Using the 5DIII with a Zeiss 85 1.4 lens, he recently showed me a b/w print that was spectacular, even considering the large format work I've seen him produce. But he couldn't have done it without using a tripod and great technique, excellent PP judgment and execution, a nice paper (Canson Infinity Baryta) with his own custom profile, Cone inks with 7 shades of grey/black with gloss optimizer, and most importantly, a wonderful image to start. The composition and range of subtle tonalities was just superb, and I can't imagine that any other gear would have enhanced the result in any meaningful way.

 

No offense to anyone who has posted pics here, but any comparison to what I'm talking about really is crazy.

 

There are enough fine tools available these days to produce great prints. Unless those prints are huge, any of the superb cameras discussed here are fully capable; in fact, probably more capable than many photographers using them.

 

In a double blind test, looking at real prints and not test shots, I doubt most people could name the camera or lens. But it sure makes for good forum and internet discussion.

 

Jeff

[Jamie Roberts]

I am waiting for all those silly S2 owners to sell their cameras and pick up D800Es Then I will pick up an S2 and lenses cheap

 

And someday my car will fly as well.

 

I got to use an S2 for a short while last year, and I was really blown away. Not just by the lenses and their fantastic performance, but by the overall camera handling, viewfinder, and the resulting files. Microcontrast, detail, overall colour--all just exceptionally good.

 

So like some others, I'm not convinced that just because the D800 matches the pixel count it's in the same league, even though I'm far more likely, financially, to have a D800 than an S series.

 

Is the D800 close enough? For some people, sure. For some others? Not so much. I still haven't seen anything from the D800 series that tells me Nikon has fixed their colour profile either. So my dSLR purchase has "gone elsewhere" till I see what Leica is going to do this year.

[gdb]

I for myself have NO intention to sell my S2...

 

Sorry !

Gérard

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[JMacD]

I have handled the Nikon D800 and was surprised by the amount of in camera processing available. if a journalist, I would need one.

 

I bought into the Leica S system for the lenses. I appreciate the simplicity of the S body and figure I will probably update it when the S4 comes out. But the lenses are forever.

 

I also like the incredibly bright viewfinder of the S body. Net, if both cameras were on a table in front of me, I would prefer it use the S system by far. Which camera would you prefer to look through? For me, the S. Only complaint is range of lenses early on. But just the 35mm and the 120 provide me the range i need for 95% of my shots.