chris_tribble Posted January 31, 2012 Share #1  Posted January 31, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not many practical posts recently, so I thought I'd encourage others to show what the M9 can do at 1600. I've been documenting a new production of Puccini's Fanciulla del West for Opera Up Close at the King's Head Theatre in London. Two M9 bodies with 28 Summicron Asph and 50 Summilux Asph and Canon 5D2 + 70-200.  The M9 has been perfect. I used Thorsten's trick of presetting WB to 2500 given the mixed lighting and haven't needed to tweak. The M9's behaved impeccaby and the client is delighted. ISO 1600 throughout. No problem going to A2 with these.  A couple of examples below. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/171770-in-praise-of-1600-iso/?do=findComment&comment=1914487'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Hi chris_tribble, Take a look here In praise of 1600 ISO. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
likalar Posted January 31, 2012 Share #2 Â Posted January 31, 2012 Chris, this is very impressive. This is a very good stage photo, and I am really liking the tones and subtle separation where the dark coat meets the deep background tones. The light shirt holds up very well, too. Nice! Can I ask: Is this originally a dng file? Too small to tell here, but are you using any noise reduction filters? Also, if using raw, what processing software are you happy with? If too many questions, I understand. Nice work. Â Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted January 31, 2012 Share #3  Posted January 31, 2012 Not many practical posts recently, so I thought I'd encourage others to show what the M9 can do at 1600. I've been documenting a new production of Puccini's Fanciulla del West for Opera Up Close at the King's Head Theatre in London. Two M9 bodies with 28 Summicron Asph and 50 Summilux Asph and Canon 5D2 + 70-200. The M9 has been perfect. I used Thorsten's trick of presetting WB to 2500 given the mixed lighting and haven't needed to tweak. The M9's behaved impeccaby and the client is delighted. ISO 1600 throughout. No problem going to A2 with these.  A couple of examples below.  Thank you Chris,   your remarks about the 1600 ISO gave me the courage to try more than 800 myself. This weekend I made shots with 800,1600 and 2500. I must say the results were not bad at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
proy Posted February 1, 2012 Share #4 Â Posted February 1, 2012 Could you please refer us to the Thorsten WB trick.? Â thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoySmith Posted February 1, 2012 Share #5 Â Posted February 1, 2012 Awesome images Chris. What were the apertures (wide open probably) and shutter speed ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Morte Posted February 1, 2012 Share #6 Â Posted February 1, 2012 Very well done. I often shoot at 1000 ISO but am not scared to go above. Â Streamlight Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share #7  Posted February 1, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for kind comments.  various responses:  1/ Thorsten's trick is here: leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica M9 Digital Rangefinder Camera - Page 14: A walk-through of the Leica M9 and Leica M9-P menus ... though I've just noticed that he recommends 3200 as the Kelvin value. I'd mis-remembered this as 2500 - but find that for stage lighting this is really good. I now have pre-sets on the M9 for 160 ISO / Daylight WB; 1600 ISO / 2500 K WB; 400 ISO/Auto WB.  2/ All images shot in RAW (as ever). I applied a +15 luminance NR in LR3 - but only to be on the safe side - not really necessary.  3/ At the beginning of a session like this I use MANUAL and set aperture to 1/15 on the body with the wide angle lens (fully open) and 1/30 on the body with the 50mm @ f2. I then adjust from these bases metering for highlights and letting the shadows look after themselves. In some shots it appears to be that you're massively underexposing, but it means you can hold the highlight values.  The great thing about rehearsals is that once you've built trust with the cast you can work incredibly close. I wouldn't be without the DSLR and long fast glass for other shots.  I give another example below just to show how well the 50 lux holds up against the light. I had no idea if this would work - though focusing was still possible even though the lights had been brought right down apart from some spots. This I couldn't have done with AF on the Canon.  If you're interested, there's a fuller set from this production at: West End Girl (Fanciulla del West) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/171770-in-praise-of-1600-iso/?do=findComment&comment=1914799'>More sharing options...
Alnitak Posted February 1, 2012 Share #8 Â Posted February 1, 2012 Nice examples, Chris. I use ISO 1600 all the time when I need to; with Lightroom 3.5 the raw rendering is superb and noise is very cleanly dealt with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hifigraz Posted February 1, 2012 Share #9 Â Posted February 1, 2012 In the first month with my m9 I was a little bit dissapointed ... ISO performance isn't as good as it is with recent dslrs. Â BUT: If you expose to the right and use the sharpening denoising tutorial from the FAQ's you can get "good" results even at 2500.... Â Better "noisy" denn shaked ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share #10 Â Posted February 1, 2012 Exposing correctly is essential - just like in the good old days of slide film.... If you get that right, then, in my humble opinion, high ISO from M9 is very very good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted February 1, 2012 Share #11 Â Posted February 1, 2012 great shots chris, thanks for sharing this and I agree about the posts. why shift the wb at 1600 as opposed to leaving it at auto? lowers the noise? Â steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share #12  Posted February 2, 2012 great shots chris, thanks for sharing this and I agree about the posts. why shift the wb at 1600 as opposed to leaving it at auto? lowers the noise?  steve  Steve - my experience with stage lighting is that you need to work in manual. Using Auto ISO throws so many variables into the pot that it can confuse the photographer and the camera!. The great thing about 1600 with stage lighting is that it gives action stopping shutter speeds in stronger light, and the flexibility you need when light values drop. I keep the aperture wide most of the time and the only controls I have to worry about are shutter speed and focus. This works best for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelagia Posted February 2, 2012 Share #13  Posted February 2, 2012 why shift the wb at 1600 as opposed to leaving it at auto? lowers the noise? steve  I suppose Steve asked about WB on auto, but not sure.  Nice result you get. Still, I am curious about the noise. You say only luminance NR to 15 and that is it? No color noise in shadows? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share #14  Posted February 2, 2012 Pelagia - 100% crop. Color noise reduction is the default.  Also note - there's no sharpening on this image. The histogram tells the story.  As I said - I continue to be impressed by the M9 & I can get theatre poster images from this sort of file. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/171770-in-praise-of-1600-iso/?do=findComment&comment=1915736'>More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted February 2, 2012 Share #15 Â Posted February 2, 2012 For any artificial light I recommend setting the Kelvin to 3200 ISO as that will be the most dominant light source in for example streets. But as there is a growing amount of LED light, low-energy light and all there will be mixed light sources (LED is not a temperature but a technology to create artificial light; with many different temperatures as a result). Â Most light sources behind red surfaces, blue surfaces, in busses, in shops, etc. is 3200 Kelvin. So that is why 3200 is the most likely kelvin setting for artificial light (meaning basically that when the sun goes down, switch to 3200 Kelvin!). Â Theater lamps are usually lower than 3200 kelvin, though many theaters and music scenes switch to LED light. Â But if one is shooting in a certain location, one would do a manual white balance with a white or grey card. That will work really well. Â But of course one can't do a manual white balance measurement in the streets. Because in the instant one turns around og walk 10 meters down the street the mix of light will have changed: But the majority of light sources will be in the area of 3200 Kelvin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 2, 2012 Share #16  Posted February 2, 2012 these are my humble efforts with low lit stage work at ISO 1600. These looked fine to me- and the editor was very happy. These images are not particularly sharp but the action was fast- and the lens vintage summilux 50 wide open. I wish I had preset the white balance beforehand as the auto balance gave varying colour temperatures that can be tricky to tweak afterwards. I agree with Chris- steer clear of Auto ISO: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/171770-in-praise-of-1600-iso/?do=findComment&comment=1915890'>More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share #17 Â Posted February 2, 2012 Good work! The more I use it, the happier I am with these high ISO results. Life gets even better with LR4 by the way. I've only played with it, but the new 2012 process gives much better colour IMHO + I like the new noise control sliders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted February 2, 2012 Share #18 Â Posted February 2, 2012 i understand the value of manually setting the wb, and 3200 seems like a great rule of thumb and i will certainly use it. it is still unclear to me the relation between manual wb and low noise .... Â old enough to admit when what i don't know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicakillen Posted February 2, 2012 Share #19  Posted February 2, 2012 Thanks for nice stage shots - impressive (and Fanciulla is a fantastic opera!). However I don´t understand the "set WB to 3200K" theory. When I use my M9 at night in cities and use auto WB I often get too yellowish images, right. But this is very easy to adjust with the WB selector in Lightroom, and the problem is solved. Or do I miss something here - would it be better to have started with 3200K instead? I use dng of course. Thanks for comments... /Anders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted February 2, 2012 Share #20 Â Posted February 2, 2012 Chris, thank you for starting this useful thread. I often use ISO 1600 for available light indoors and have found it an utterly viable solution. Â Turning to colour temperature, Chris I wonder why you did not set manual WB when you had the chance during the dress rehearsal. I now use the bigger card in the ColorChecker Passport to great effect. Just remember to neutralize it by selecting a safe User Profile at the end of the task/job/project otherwise the setting is carried over unwittingly into a different colour temperature location. (As a personal discipline, I use the Manual Setting 2 for indoor lighting and MS 1 for daylight.) My studio size WhiBal would also do the job, but that is bigger and seldom goes out with me. The Passport slips easily in my pocket or bag or hangs around my neck on a lanyard. I thoroughly recommend it as a starting point where you are able to sample the light before shooting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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