Studio58 Posted January 29, 2012 Share #21 Posted January 29, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think the request of the OP is a reflection of the attitude of the current generation. Aside from wanting it all... now... there is also an expectation that they have an inherent right that should be fulfilled without any real effort on their part. This of course is a generalisation and does not apply to the entire population in that bracket. Clearly there are MANY who do not fit that stereotype. That however is the impression I get, particularly as I move amongst that crowd (since mid 2009) in the course of my uni studies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Hi Studio58, Take a look here could I borrow...?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
leicaluke Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share #22 Posted January 29, 2012 I think the request of the OP is a reflection of the attitude of the current generation. Aside from wanting it all... now... there is also an expectation that they have an inherent right that should be fulfilled without any real effort on their part. This of course is a generalisation and does not apply to the entire population in that bracket. Clearly there are MANY who do not fit that stereotype. That however is the impression I get, particularly as I move amongst that crowd (since mid 2009) in the course of my uni studies. ...? I believe i said it was asking alot.. implying that i expected little. I did not ask the question expecting people would shower me with offers. I do not need a leica now, nor do i NEED one in 100 years. it is a luxury that would benefit many aspects but it is also one i can live without. The point in asking the question was to see if anyone would be willing. I did not command anyone to hand over there leica so i can use it. I also see that no one is willing so i will move on. Either i dont fit your stereotype or you misunderstood my intentions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted January 30, 2012 Share #23 Posted January 30, 2012 I teach at a major university and don't feel that students expect things handed to them. In fact, the majority are quite willing to work hard especially as they realize they are in a very competitive market and nothing will come easy. And perhaps that's why many of them try things out of the blue, like asking strangers to lend them an expensive camera. It may sound extravagant but what's the harm in trying? It's all part of the learning process. I'll bet Steve Jobs or Warren Buffet, etc., did the same sort of thing. They weren't afraid of being turned down. They probably tried anything without embarrassment. I kind of admire that, actually. Around here they call it having cojones. The only advice I'd give to 'leicaluke' is to perhaps explain the situation a bit more clearly and carefully from the very beginning and with a lot more detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted January 30, 2012 Share #24 Posted January 30, 2012 I teach at a major university and don't feel that students expect things handed to them. In fact, the majority are quite willing to work hard especially as they realize they are in a very competitive market and nothing will come eas.. Maybe your uni is an exception. From what I can gather, the top of the bell curve sits around 65.... hardly the result of hard work. Some work hard, the majority are there for the piece of paper with the minimal amount of disruption to their social lives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 30, 2012 Share #25 Posted January 30, 2012 Maybe your uni is an exception. From what I can gather, the top of the bell curve sits around 65.... [...] Someone who finds that probably has an IQ of 65. Technically a Moron. Seriously, 65 IQ is generally so disadvantaged that the person would not likely even be able to read or write but at the most elementary level. It's WAY left of the mean. Damn near the bottom. The mean is always adjusted to 100. I suggest you begin with the hard part and look into the Flynn effect, then backwards. IQ world-wide is rising. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted January 30, 2012 Share #26 Posted January 30, 2012 it is not a figure that someone "found". It is simply the average mark .... it is not opinion it is a mathematical equation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 30, 2012 Share #27 Posted January 30, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) it is not a figure that someone "found". It is simply the average mark .... it is not opinion it is a mathematical equation. Wrong. You are bright enough to be here and a photographer, but you assert such nonsense (in this subject) that I have to believe you are being willfully deceptive or ignorant. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted January 30, 2012 Share #28 Posted January 30, 2012 Someone who finds that probably has an IQ of 65. Technically a Moron. Seriously, 65 IQ is generally so disadvantaged that the person would not likely even be able to read or write but at the most elementary level. It's WAY left of the mean. Damn near the bottom. . you refer to IQ, which I did not. I referred to the average mark out of 100. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaluke Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share #29 Posted January 30, 2012 you can't blame the newer generation without questioning the teaching of the older. I think it is all stereotypical.. but this conversation has gone quite off track oh well, thats the fun of it i suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted January 30, 2012 Share #30 Posted January 30, 2012 Some work hard, the majority are there for the piece of paper with the minimal amount of disruption to their social lives. I guess I would argue that this may be more of a cynical assumption instead of a reality. I think it was Socrates who once said, 'the younger generation is too listless and lazy.' This is not something new; each older generation says the same thing. Good universities are quite restrictive in their admissions policies: entrance tests, grades, recommendation letters, personal essays, etc.. Once they get in, they remain competitive. If not, then the system will weed them out (one of the purposes of the grading system.) Granted some students are low achievers and have low self-esteem. They don't fair well in competitive environments. There are universities and colleges that accept these students under the belief that everyone deserves a chance. And if they don't make an effort, they will be eventually weeded out somewhere down the line (they'll have difficulty finding and keeping gainful employment, etc.. ) But sometimes they get a spark from being in an academic environment and go one to become high achievers. The world is full of examples of 'slackers.' Some of them went on to become heads of industry. I was once cynical about the younger generation. But I can't find myself to give up on them. That would mean giving up on the world. Luckily I've been rewarded with some brilliant and conscientious students. And watching them go on to succeed in the world as good citizens is a bonus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted January 30, 2012 Share #31 Posted January 30, 2012 I guess I would argue that this may be more of a cynical assumption instead of a reality. . I am assuming nothing. Uni has cured me of that. No I am repeating what I have heard from students themselves. Look around the lecture theatre, it is quite incredible to see that many students are more engaged with FB, Twitter & other social media and paying no attention to the presentation.. Anyhow, I did not say I had given up on this generation. I was merely making an observation as to how slack they are..... generally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RITskellar Posted January 30, 2012 Share #32 Posted January 30, 2012 Either i dont fit your stereotype or you misunderstood my intentions. Actually, I think it's you that doesn't understand. There's no problem or hurt in asking, but you failed to and ignored invitations to properly introduce yourself. No past history on this forum, no name, no links provided to personal website or Facebook, Flickr, or anything that would endear yourself to this community and make you appear to be genuine in both your intent and your character. And there was no thought or proposal given for how to make such a loaner work for the concerns of both parties. Furthermore, your quip about expecting the negative reaction that you got, reflects poorly on a character we have nothing else to go on. If you're not willing to understand and adjust to the reservations of the people that you are asking for help, then I don't know how you can expect anything but a negative reaction. Aside from borrowing a camera outright, you seemed to ignore some very practical advice and professional experience that some of these folks took the time to share with you. You might want to start by acknowledging that. When Steve Jobs asked Bill Hewlett from HP for spare parts, it was not done in a vacuum and with the complete absence of personal connection, like you did. Also, you need to understand that those are very different times. Scam internet proposals from faceless people run rampant today. Also unlike that situation, you are not asking a large corporation for a few spare parts, you're asking regular people who've spent thousands of dollars on their own gear that may in some way be rather precious to them and their livelihood. And it is not for you to judge whether or not it should be precious to them. Dismiss it if you wish, but my advice to you in the future is to know and respect your audience. If you don't, you're going to meet with a lot of closed doors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted January 30, 2012 Share #33 Posted January 30, 2012 I should qualify the statements regarding uni by saying that my experience only relates to Humanities students. Other disciplines such as Law, Medicine, Engineering, Accounting etc would be far more intense and I doubt that you would get away with slacking off... not if you wanted to complete your degree at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adji.AP Posted January 30, 2012 Share #34 Posted January 30, 2012 I did exactly what you are trying to do right now. Before I bought myself an M, I borrow it from my friend. Yes I need to feel mysefl how the handling, soul, etc of it first. Lucky me, I was allowed to carry it as far as I can go, within his sight. I am sure there's photography community whose members have an M system. You can just join the club then and socialize. My two cents. Best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 30, 2012 Share #35 Posted January 30, 2012 noleicaluke, Would you really lend your many thousand kit to a total stranger for a week? I would assume if you had one you would be a working photojournalist and it certainly wouldn't be in a glass case, as you have sulked, would it? Is that not a bit hypocritical?. So what would you use for your profession while you have very kindly lent yours to a total stranger. Also having lent MUCH gear in my time I can tell you that the people who have broken the gear, completely by accident, have been unable to afford a quick repair. I don't even want repaired gear that has fallen off a tripod, or what ever else accident that has been made by someone new to the game. So before you go and sulk about your humble Nikon gear and assume that people are fiendishly hiding away "their precious" in glass cases perhaps stop and consider why they might not be so keen to lend their hard earned gear to a complete and total stranger and go away and figure out, in the same way we ALL have done, how to get your hands on a Leica or any new piece of equipment that is. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 30, 2012 Share #36 Posted January 30, 2012 Ehh.. should have thought as much. My humble nikon is better than a classy M in a glass case anyways. In that case, carry on enjoying your humble Nikon. I am amazed that you are surprised that people won't consider lending their stuff to a complete stranger. Most people here are amateurs who have paid for their own equipment through their own money and have not had the benefit of being able to write the cost down against taxes. So, even if they don't need the equipment to make a living, they have spent a lot of taxed income buying it for themselves. I did lend my M2 and a lens to a friend once, who went on to buy an M6 kit, but no one in their right mind would lend something like that to a total stranger. If you were to buy an M2 and an older 50mm lens, use it for a month and find you don't get on with it, chances are you'd be able to sell it for what you paid for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 30, 2012 Share #37 Posted January 30, 2012 and have not had the benefit of being able to write the cost down against taxes. Even when you "write the cost down against taxes" you still pay a large proportion of the cost out of your own pocket. The current Annual Investment Allowance system is quite generous in that you can write off 100% of the equipment cost against taxable income (profit) in a single tax year but even a 50% tax payer will still be paying 50% of the cost. Many (probably most) freelance photographers in the UK are standard rate taxpayers (i.e. pay tax at 20%) so 80% of the equipment cost has to come out of the photographer's income/pocket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted January 30, 2012 Share #38 Posted January 30, 2012 You can always rent one for a week. I've thought about renting an M9 on borrowlenses.com. You could also snag an old Fed3 with a lens off of ebay for under $100 just to try the rangefinder thing. I'm in the fourth largest city in the US, and the nearest Leica dealer is three hours away in Austin. It's a travesty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted January 30, 2012 Share #39 Posted January 30, 2012 My M2 has spent the day rolling around my backpack and being blasted by spindrift on its removal. When it's dried out it's going straight back into its display cabinet. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobin Posted January 30, 2012 Share #40 Posted January 30, 2012 You can borrow my M9-P + noctilux, MP + 35 'lux just tell me where to send it. I just need it back by then end of the year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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