algrove Posted January 21, 2012 Share #41 Posted January 21, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I must say that I have had Zeiss VF and never a problem with one. I decided to get a Leica 21 VF (and some others) based on what members have raved about here. Well, I must say with the Leica VF I had more off shots than I can ever remember with my Zeiss VF, near and far away. I will have to use it in a more controlled environment to confirm I do not like it as much as my Zeiss VF. I now own a WATE and the frankenfinder came with it, but since I have not yet had a chance to use either the WATE nor its finder I cannot comment there. I am encouraged by Stephen's comments on using the WATE VF though. Sure beats carrying and switching around VF's. Heck, come to think about it if I carry 3 VF, they about equal the size of the Frankenfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Hi algrove, Take a look here Viewfinder for 21mm lens?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
euston Posted January 22, 2012 Share #42 Posted January 22, 2012 I am considering the purchase of a 21mm lens for my M9, like e.g. the affordable 21mm 2.8 ZM Biogon T*ZM.But I would not like to use a special viewfinder with this lens because it would mean carrying around an additional piece of equipment. I wonder whether it is absolutely necessary to use a special viewfinder when shooting at 21mm? No, it’s not absolutely necessary. I have the same lens that you’re considering and I bought a metal Voigtländer viewfinder to use with it. At the time, I had to wear glasses to focus and couldn’t see the edges of the frame in the camera’s viewfinder. Following eye surgery I no longer need glasses to focus so I can see much more of the frame. The Voigtländer viewfinder does the job OK but I hardly ever use it now that I can see better and have got used to the lens and know more or less what it can see. I prefer an SLR when precise framing is critical. What I do use a lot is a hot shoe spirit level for those occasions when avoiding perspective distortion matters to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daubsphoto Posted January 22, 2012 Share #43 Posted January 22, 2012 I think the question of viewfinders on these ultra-wide lenses comes down to speed. If you need to shoot quickly, as in reportage or street photography, then the viewfinder slows you down. And with enough experience, you can estimate the field of view pretty accurately. But if you shoot slowly, then the viewfinder seems to be a very useful tool for framing and composition. I tend not to use my viewfinders even when I can because I shoot very quickly in fast-changing situations quite often. But if you shoot slowly, then the viewfinder, regardless of maker, is a great addition to your arsenal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted January 24, 2012 Share #44 Posted January 24, 2012 I think the question of viewfinders on these ultra-wide lenses comes down to speed. If you need to shoot quickly, as in reportage or street photography, then the viewfinder slows you down. And with enough experience, you can estimate the field of view pretty accurately. But if you shoot slowly, then the viewfinder seems to be a very useful tool for framing and composition. I tend not to use my viewfinders even when I can because I shoot very quickly in fast-changing situations quite often. But if you shoot slowly, then the viewfinder, regardless of maker, is a great addition to your arsenal. Sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment at all. With a 21mm lens I pre-set either zone focus or hyper focal and usually begin shooting even before the external VF comes to eye level. As a scene unfolds the external VF allows me to properly frame my shots. In fact a Leica with a 21mm lens and external viewfinder is one of the fastest cameras for street photography and reportage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted January 24, 2012 Share #45 Posted January 24, 2012 Seafurydriver - totally agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 24, 2012 Share #46 Posted January 24, 2012 Sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment at all. With a 21mm lens I pre-set either zone focus or hyper focal and usually begin shooting even before the external VF comes to eye level. As a scene unfolds the external VF allows me to properly frame my shots. In fact a Leica with a 21mm lens and external viewfinder is one of the fastest cameras for street photography and reportage. This is how I work too. But you can learn how to level a camera with an 18 or 21mm lens too, with an accessory viewfinder. A psychoterapist might be able to help people with an irrational fear of these little devices. The old man from the Age of the Brilliant Finder (remember those little devices?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted January 24, 2012 Share #47 Posted January 24, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I will admit that I often find it easier to level my shots with the internal finder than with external Zeiss finder. Depends on where the nearest straight line is... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted January 24, 2012 Share #48 Posted January 24, 2012 Sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment at all. With a 21mm lens I pre-set either zone focus or hyper focal and usually begin shooting even before the external VF comes to eye level. As a scene unfolds the external VF allows me to properly frame my shots. In fact a Leica with a 21mm lens and external viewfinder is one of the fastest cameras for street photography and reportage. For street and reportage, yes that is how it's done - I also do this a lot with a DSLR works very very good, especially for shooting fast but also it is often less distracting for the subject, here I don't mean shooting candid... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted January 24, 2012 Share #49 Posted January 24, 2012 I'd have to agree with Seafurydriver - as in the way *I* typically use a 21mm lens (or thereabouts) is most for "street" style shooting. Either "shot from the hip" or just a quick up/release/down shot. I typically only frame shots with such lenses for landscapes and more considered stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 27, 2012 Share #50 Posted January 27, 2012 I have the Leica 21-24-28 and the CV 21 (came with the 15mm CV and was useful when I shot the M8). I don't use either of them very much. I've accepted the fact that I'm shooting digital, and can chimp if I want absolute alignment with a stationary subject. It's not a problem at all. For most of my work, though, there are moving subjects involved. So I can pre-visualize what's in the 21mm frame without trouble and know where the more central subjects will fall in the picture relative to the visible framelines. So I don't need the finder there either. And if I need to crop? Then I crop. That's also not an issue these days. So: previsualize with existing framelines / chimp / crop. No finder necessary unless you *must* preserve the actual frame. If I wanted that kind of accuracy, I'd be using a dSLR and not a rangefinder anyway. Perhaps the folks with an "irrational fear" aren't the ones that don't use finders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 27, 2012 Share #51 Posted January 27, 2012 All right James. Use a WATE set to 16mm and no finder. Shoot blindly. See afterwards if there's a useable image there. Somehere. Maybe. I value the pixels I have, just as once I valued the square millimeters of negative I had. I previsualise the picture: I see the picture I want before I take it. How can I make the actual taken picture agree with my previsualised picture, unless I use a finder? All right, close your eyes and jerk your right index finger. This is the schlock way. Not my way. The old man from Sinatra Days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted January 27, 2012 Share #52 Posted January 27, 2012 I don't understand when people don't take advantage of wide angle lenses combined with the full frame sensor of the M9. No disrespect intended, but if I didn't need to go wide, or I constantly cropped my shots, then I should have never bought an M9 and just continued using my M8.2 (which served me well despite the limitations of the cropped sensor). A full frame sensor combined with an ultra wide angle lens is an area of digital photography where most people don't get to play, and it's one of the most important reasons I bought an M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted January 27, 2012 Share #53 Posted January 27, 2012 Unless one is using the M9 + 21mm lens day in, day out + frequent 'chimping' (horrible term), I do not see how one can extract the maximum benefit from such a combination without a viewfinder. I use the ZM 21mm Biogon f2.8 with the ZI 21mm VF and after overcoming the initial 'strangeness' of focussing/checking exposure in the camera VF then switching to the ZI VF for composition, find it an easy combination to use. Certainly without the ZI VF, it would have taken much more time and even more frozen fingers/toes/nose to sneak up so close to this standing stone and capture this image... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/170945-viewfinder-for-21mm-lens/?do=findComment&comment=1910663'>More sharing options...
flyalf Posted January 27, 2012 Share #54 Posted January 27, 2012 All right James. Use a WATE set to 16mm and no finder. Shoot blindly. See afterwards if there's a useable image there. Somehere. Maybe. I value the pixels I have, just as once I valued the square millimeters of negative I had. I previsualise the picture: I see the picture I want before I take it. How can I make the actual taken picture agree with my previsualised picture, unless I use a finder? All right, close your eyes and jerk your right index finger. This is the schlock way. Not my way. The old man from Sinatra Days Second that. And IMO even the small inaccuracies with the 16-18-21 finders makes it difficult to frame and compose.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaPassion Posted January 28, 2012 Share #55 Posted January 28, 2012 Can the Leica 24mm bight line be used with the 21mm? Can the full 21mm FOV be seen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 28, 2012 Share #56 Posted January 28, 2012 Maybe. But if you are using an accessory viewfinder why not use the correct one? They are inaccurete enough as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Allsopp Posted January 28, 2012 Share #57 Posted January 28, 2012 I think you need one. I use the Voightlander - reasonable price and good for the job. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk My choice too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 28, 2012 Share #58 Posted January 28, 2012 Unless one is using the M9 + 21mm lens day in, day out + frequent 'chimping' (horrible term), I do not see how one can extract the maximum benefit from such a combination without a viewfinder. I use the ZM 21mm Biogon f2.8 with the ZI 21mm VF and after overcoming the initial 'strangeness' of focussing/checking exposure in the camera VF then switching to the ZI VF for composition, find it an easy combination to use. Certainly without the ZI VF, it would have taken much more time and even more frozen fingers/toes/nose to sneak up so close to this standing stone and capture this image... Is that Snow Henge? If so, haven't been there since the early eighties and could not afford a Leica then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 28, 2012 Share #59 Posted January 28, 2012 Maybe. But if you are using an accessory viewfinder why not use the correct one? They are inaccurete enough as it is. +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 28, 2012 Share #60 Posted January 28, 2012 I have the Leica 21-24-28 and the CV 21 (came with the 15mm CV and was useful when I shot the M8). I don't use either of them very much. I've accepted the fact that I'm shooting digital, and can chimp if I want absolute alignment with a stationary subject. It's not a problem at all. For most of my work, though, there are moving subjects involved. So I can pre-visualize what's in the 21mm frame without trouble and know where the more central subjects will fall in the picture relative to the visible framelines. So I don't need the finder there either. And if I need to crop? Then I crop. That's also not an issue these days. So: previsualize with existing framelines / chimp / crop. No finder necessary unless you *must* preserve the actual frame. If I wanted that kind of accuracy, I'd be using a dSLR and not a rangefinder anyway. Perhaps the folks with an "irrational fear" aren't the ones that don't use finders Want to sell the 21/24/28? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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