k-hawinkler Posted January 19, 2012 Share #1 Posted January 19, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) On the NEX-5N one can select Shoot Mode/Scene Selection (SCN)/Hand-held Twilight (HHT). A synopsis of the functionality is given here Yes...: Sony NEX Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review. Quote: "HHT mode will always have less noise than a comparable single frame shot at the same aperture and ISO. HHT mode takes 6 shots, and merges them into one. Because noise is randomly occurring, it is in a different spot in each of the 6 frames. By merging the 6 frames together, you are able to assemble a single photo using the areas of each of the 6 photos that have little or no noise - the 6 frames end up averaging out most of the noisy pixels, which only occurs in one unique place in each frame. This also has the side-benefit of allowing you to rebuild detail that otherwise would have been obscured by noise in a single frame, since in at least one or more of the 6 frames, you can likely find most or all parts of the photo having no noise, and the camera will use that portion of the frame when stacking the 6 photos into one." Well, I was curious enough and tried it out. I picked a walk-in closet, so dark that the M9 rangefinder focusing rectangles were barely visible and couldn't be relied upon for accurate focus. Also, there were no real sharp edges in the focus area for focus peaking to work. What saved the day was the magnified and amplified LiveVIew image on the LCD screen that was bright and clear enough for accurate focusing. However, I couldn't hold the camera quite steady enough and inadvertently moved a little. Leaning against a wall would remedy this problem. Anyway, here is the image taken with NEX-5N + 35/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH at 1/15s, f/1.4, ISO 6400 as JPG FINE OOC, no post processing except reduction in size and quality to observe LUF constraints.. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I think the image is pretty clean for ISO 6400 and I am hoping to find similar functionality in a future Leica M10 or MILC. K-H. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I think the image is pretty clean for ISO 6400 and I am hoping to find similar functionality in a future Leica M10 or MILC. K-H. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/170847-hht-mode-on-nex-5n-3514-summilux/?do=findComment&comment=1902123'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here HHT Mode on NEX-5N & 35/1.4 Summilux. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jankap Posted January 19, 2012 Share #2 Posted January 19, 2012 Very interesting. Electronics is invading the optomechanic world. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted January 19, 2012 Share #3 Posted January 19, 2012 On the NEX-5N one can select Shoot Mode/Scene Selection (SCN)/Hand-held Twilight (HHT). A synopsis of the functionality is given here Yes...: Sony NEX Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review. Quote: "HHT mode will always have less noise than a comparable single frame shot at the same aperture and ISO. HHT mode takes 6 shots, and merges them into one. Because noise is randomly occurring, it is in a different spot in each of the 6 frames. By merging the 6 frames together, you are able to assemble a single photo using the areas of each of the 6 photos that have little or no noise - the 6 frames end up averaging out most of the noisy pixels, which only occurs in one unique place in each frame. This also has the side-benefit of allowing you to rebuild detail that otherwise would have been obscured by noise in a single frame, since in at least one or more of the 6 frames, you can likely find most or all parts of the photo having no noise, and the camera will use that portion of the frame when stacking the 6 photos into one." Anyway, here is the image taken with NEX-5N + 35/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH at 1/15s, f/1.4, ISO 6400 as JPG FINE OOC, no post processing except reduction in size and quality to observe LUF constraints.. . Been shooting the NEX-5 with Leica lenses for about 11 months. Two draw backs to the handheld twilight setting, no RAW, just JPG. AND it automatically chooses that 6400 ISO setting everytime. A Summilux should help during those "it's really WAY too dark in here for photos". A sunset or twilight-y type scene MAY be better served at 1/15 or 1/20s, f/1.4, 1600, or even 800 (!) using RAW...AND the histogram. Focus Peaking is remarkably helpful, (I think it's the best feature on the camera, next to MF Assist) but I'd probably trust the LENS more than the Sony software figuring out my exposure and smushing it together in a JPG exposed at one of the highest possible ISO settings on the camera. The lower you set the ISO on the NEX, the better. This hand held twilight setting is also available on the older NEX-5, AND the much cheaper NEX-3. If the hypothetical Leica M10 was released with a feature like this, I'm not sure how the folks in here would react. The announced Nikon D4 is going to have an Auto HDR feature that I believe only uses 3 frames shot super-consecutively. A feature like that on a Nikon pro camera will get swallowed up and isnt even noticable. I would think it's not really needed, since you're getting pretty clean files at 3200 4000 5000 an 6400. I could see it on an intermediate Leica EVIL interchangable lens, a 15mp CL Digital with a big NEX sized sensor (that's what I really want, my fingers are crossed), or a D-Lux 6, (if it isn't already on the 5) but I think the masses might pick up pitchforks and torches if a "Twilight setting" gets squeezed onto the back plate of an M10. Can you imagine, a big icon of a HALF sun going into a line of the horizon? Jay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sp12 Posted January 21, 2012 Share #4 Posted January 21, 2012 The D4's shots happen so fast a tripod isn't really needed -- that's why it's worth talking about. IMO handheld twilight is interesting but nothing you couldn't do afterwards on a computer for 7 or 8 shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted January 21, 2012 Been shooting the NEX-5 with Leica lenses for about 11 months. Two draw backs to the handheld twilight setting, no RAW, just JPG. Yup. AND it automatically chooses that 6400 ISO setting everytime. No, it doesn't. Here is an example in which the NEX-5N automatically chose ISO 2500. That setting is certainly not under user control. I left the Exif data in the image. Of course, I would typically shoot this with much lower ISO. However, I find the IQ remarkably good and naturally looking. Lens used: Tri-Elmar 90/4 from 1965. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! A Summilux should help during those "it's really WAY too dark in here for photos". No, it doesn't help with focusing - if you look through the rangefinder when it's too dark to see. A sunset or twilight-y type scene MAY be better served at 1/15 or 1/20s, f/1.4, 1600, or even 800 (!) using RAW...AND the histogram. Thanks for the tip. Do you have an example to post? Focus Peaking is remarkably helpful, (I think it's the best feature on the camera, next to MF Assist) I agree completely. but I'd probably trust the LENS more than the Sony software figuring out my exposure and smushing it together in a JPG exposed at one of the highest possible ISO settings on the camera. The lower you set the ISO on the NEX, the better. This hand held twilight setting is also available on the older NEX-5, AND the much cheaper NEX-3. If the hypothetical Leica M10 was released with a feature like this, I'm not sure how the folks in here would react. The announced Nikon D4 is going to have an Auto HDR feature that I believe only uses 3 frames shot super-consecutively. A feature like that on a Nikon pro camera will get swallowed up and isnt even noticable. I would think it's not really needed, since you're getting pretty clean files at 3200 4000 5000 an 6400. I could see it on an intermediate Leica EVIL interchangable lens, a 15mp CL Digital with a big NEX sized sensor (that's what I really want, my fingers are crossed), or a D-Lux 6, (if it isn't already on the 5) but I think the masses might pick up pitchforks and torches if a "Twilight setting" gets squeezed onto the back plate of an M10. Can you imagine, a big icon of a HALF sun going into a line of the horizon? Jay Thanks for the feedback, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! No, it doesn't help with focusing - if you look through the rangefinder when it's too dark to see. Thanks for the tip. Do you have an example to post? I agree completely. Thanks for the feedback, K-H. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/170847-hht-mode-on-nex-5n-3514-summilux/?do=findComment&comment=1904744'>More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share #6 Posted January 21, 2012 The D4's shots happen so fast a tripod isn't really needed -- that's why it's worth talking about. IMO handheld twilight is interesting but nothing you couldn't do afterwards on a computer for 7 or 8 shots. Sure, but that looks pretty labor intensive to me. What software would you recommend for this? Thanks, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 22, 2012 Share #7 Posted January 22, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) . Lens used: Tri-Elmar 90/4 from 1965. :confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share #8 Posted January 22, 2012 :confused: 3-Element Elmar 90 mm f/4. Recently discussed here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/219226-walter-mandler-90mm-elmar-triplet.html. K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted January 28, 2012 Share #9 Posted January 28, 2012 Originally Posted by Jaybob A sunset or twilight-y type scene MAY be better served at 1/15 or 1/20s, f/1.4, 1600, or even 800 (!) using RAW...AND the histogram. Thanks for the tip. Do you have an example to post? This particular frame was shot at ISO 200 at 1/15th with either a Summitar 5cm or a Summicron 35. I'm pretty sure it was the Summitar and I'm pretty sure shot it at F2. It's a pretty straight Lightroom conversion ARW to JPG, "as shot" white balance with minimal correction or adjustment, just a little exposure, brightness, and contrast. No sharpening, noise reduction, or heavy tweaking. In retrospect, 400 or 800 would have been a better film speed setting to be at. If you click the line in in my Signature that says "NEX-5 with adapted Leica Lenses" there are a few examples of my good glass/better sensor photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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