Deliberate1 Posted January 18, 2012 Share #1 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Friends, I am probably not the only one who would appreciate a thread on travel security practices that you use to secure your gear in far away places. I plan to take my newly acquired M9 kit to India in April. I have never travelled with such expensive gear and I do not want to be constantly worrying about it. Though I am not so concenred that I would leave it home, and it will be insured. I have travelled extensively in the Middle East but that was with a Rollei MF kit that weighed about 35lbs and was all in a large Kata back pack that no one was going to surruptitiously remove from my back. The M9 is more vulnerable becasue it is smaller and easier to snatch. I have decided not to use a back pack. Rather, I am thinking a sling pack that would rest under my arm, or even a Kenesis waist belt system that I have used with a Contax G2 kit that I have. Other than not giving up the camera to a shady stranger who offers to take my picture, what pearls do you have? Thanks, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Hi Deliberate1, Take a look here Security travel tips. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted January 18, 2012 Share #2 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Buy good insurance. Â Do not buy a strap with a wire in it. Â Never let it out of your sight. Â Buy good insurance. Â Don't leave it in a hotel safe. Â Don't "show off" with your kit. Â Buy good insurance. Â If someone wants to take it from you, let them. It's not worth a knife between the ribs. Â This advice applies anywhere in the world, btw, not just India, where I am sure that the proportion of decent people to thieves is pretty much as it is anywhere elese in the world. Â There is lots of advice on security issues via the search function on the Forum, as the question comes up regularly. This is a long thread that you might find useful. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/99755-naples-too-dangerous-m9.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share #3 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Andy, thanks for yours. Why no strap with wire in it? I had actually been looking at one of those. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 18, 2012 Share #4 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Because if some chancer comes along on a motor scooter and tries to grab the camera, would you rather the leather broke first, or your arm leave its socket in your shoulder? Â Small risk, I know, but I'd rather lose the camera in rural [insert your holiday destination here] than have a dislocated arm, or worse. To be fair, the clip attaching the strap to the camera would probably give way before your arm did, but it's going to smart pretty bad... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2012 Share #5 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Because somebody may try and cut your strap to drive away with it your camera a car or on a motorcycle. It is not worth the physical harm you would sustain by being dragged along. Â Edit: Sorry Andy - simultaneous post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 18, 2012 Share #6  Posted January 18, 2012 As I have said many times before, I would rather give up my camera than be dragged down the street as a bloody pulp behind a snatch thief on a moped or in a car... Steel cable straps have absolutely zero deterrent value, don't forget.  Other than the excellent advice Andy has already given, I would simply say  - don't look like a victim - don't attract undue attention - don't carry too much - don't be distracted - don't obsess  This advice applies equally in Richmond as in Jaipur.  Have a read of this too.  Edit - another simultaneous post... Great minds Regards,  Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share #7  Posted January 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Because somebody may try and cut your strap to drive away with it your camera a car or on a motorcycle. It is not worth the physical harm you would sustain by being dragged along. Edit: Sorry Andy - simultaneous post  Understood. I did not realize the motorized snatch and grab technique. I figured that someone might come up from behind and try to cut the strap. I am more of a finesse guy. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted January 18, 2012 Share #8 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Am I right in assuming that your home base is the USA, the safest country in the world (sarcasm intended)? If you know how to move around in big cities in the US, you will be ok in most places in the world, the same common sense and precaution works everywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalme Posted January 18, 2012 Share #9 Â Posted January 18, 2012 I'm highly aware of what is going on around me when walking around with my camera. Watch where you leave it while eating ect. Try to stay with other people and consider hiring a body guard/guide. In India I'm sure you could hire your own gang for $50. Tape over Leica Logo. Â As far as the wire goes... I'll take the wire. I'm a big guy and not going to just hand over my Leica easily. I'd love to see some skinny 100lb kid on a moped try to drag me along... ain't gonna happen. Getting jumped by a gang with knives , well then you have to make a smart decision to give it up. That's a whole nuther level of crime than the bag snatch and run criminal. It's common for people to cut the stap and run with your camera.. the wire gives you a split second to hold on and they will most likely run. Â Watch out for anyone that talks to you. People in South America pull one where they ask you for directions while holding a map up close to you.. meanwhile they try to dig in your pockets and/or have another person working behind you. Carry a decoy wallet with a small amount of $$. Real wallet in front pocket or even better money belt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted January 18, 2012 Share #10  Posted January 18, 2012 As far as the wire goes... I'll take the wire. I'm a big guy and not going to just hand over my Leica easily. I'd love to see some skinny 100lb kid on a moped try to drag me along... ain't gonna happen.  That skinny 100lb kid is on a 200lb moped going 25 mph, and you're caught completely off-guard. Even if he can't "drag you along" it's likely to cause you enough injury to totally ruin your vacation. The worst law to be on the wrong side of is that of physics  I prefer using a strap that is visibly wide and thick. If a thief believes he can't cut it in one slash, he'll pick another target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 18, 2012 Share #11 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Do not buy a strap with a wire in it. Â May ask why not? I am aware of the scooter drive-by pull tactic. The clip will snap first. Snapping the strap around a sturdy object like a pillar or pier is silly, too, because the clip is so very easy to undo. Â Pull or tear-away straps seem like a good, nonintuitive solution. Keep your grip on the camera or the sturdy part of the strap and let the perp move on with a piece of strap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2012 Share #12 Â Posted January 18, 2012 My diagonal strap that I use for heavy gear has a wire in it (Sun Snipre Pro) - but no clip. I would never use it in situations where a snatch could happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share #13 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Am I right in assuming that your home base is the USA, the safest country in the world (sarcasm intended)?If you know how to move around in big cities in the US, you will be ok in most places in the world, the same common sense and precaution works everywhere. Â Well, I live in rural Maine. Grand larceny is, with exceptions, limited to stealing a piece of wood off a neighbor's woodpile. If folks here knew what a Leica and lenses cost, they are less likely to attack you than fall on the ground laughing hysterically, all the while pointing at the dufus. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 18, 2012 Share #14  Posted January 18, 2012 Tape over Leica Logo.  Don't be daft  As far as the wire goes... I'll take the wire. I'm a big guy and not going to just hand over my Leica easily. I'd love to see some skinny 100lb kid on a moped try to drag me along... ain't gonna happen.  Don't be daft, 2.  I'm 6'3" and I am not skinny. I'm also not that arrogant. They have surprise and momentum on their side. You have...?  Regards,  Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted January 18, 2012 Share #15  Posted January 18, 2012 Understood. I did not realize the motorized snatch and grab technique. I figured that someone might come up from behind and try to cut the strap. I am more of a finesse guy.David  so are thiefs in India my experience- the motorcycle snatch is far more common in Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia... my partner had her bag snatched in Kuala Lumpur. Seems to be bags mostly...  But in two years in India I never heard of one snatch incident (except monkeys- they snatch food)  I did hear of:  * itching powder: dropped down the back of Victims neck. Victim (V) seeks water- unknowing of true extent of problem. Removes back pack to apply water- applies water- at this exact moment backpack disappears- V is preoccupied with scratching...  * shoe shine scam. Small child runs up and drop some cow dung on victims shoe and departs. V is totally unaware. Another small child, a shoeshine, offers victim a shine. V declines gesturing down at shoes... V reconsiders and gets a shine (I love this one- and was strangely happy when it finally happened to me).  *V sleeps on train and awakens to find luggage stolen (common story on 3rd class trains. I would use a chain or cable here;)).  * V is offered tea in third class train from friendly family. Victim wakes up several hours later completely naked, hallucinating, half blind and under the influence of datura in the care of police in small rural village train station... (not at all nice).  * V is requested to leave his passport and other valuables in the Hotel safe. The hotel/ashram safe is robbed and 600 people lose their passports...  * V arrives in India and is convinced by cab driver that 'Delhi is not safe'. Cab driver convices him that he should leave the city immediately and drive to Kashmir. V Agrees and is driven hundreds of miles into the Himalayan mountains to Dal Lake - Srinigar where he stays on a luxury house boat. However he soon realises there is a war going on- and the boat owner is witholding his passport and other valuables. He finds himself a prisoner on the boat... there are battles going on nearby and he knows nothing of where he is or what is going on. No one speaks English. At night he escapes and runs off into the streets- penniless- passport-less. Another cab driver takes pity on him and saves him- driving him back to Delhi (where I meet him near the British Embassy). He went straight home after that...  * V is surrounded by Sadhu holy men at worlds largest gathering amid perhaps 60 million people, the awesome Kumb Mehla. They simply take his Leica M. He offers no resistance (he has another, and many rolls of film).  * V wakes up in darkened hotel room at night to witness strange sight: a dark shape is floating across the room, V believes he is dreaming, but when he rubs his eyes he notices a silhouette outside the (widely) barred window. The scene becomes clear- there is a man with a long stick- he has hooked Vs bag... V jumps out of bed and grabs the bag out of the air! There is sound of the running footsteps and the stick crashes tot he ground... V Has outwitted the thief who has made off into the blackest of Himalayan nights... V has a great story to recount (and just has;)).   Having said all of that: Don't worry overly- chances are you will be fine- as long as you have your wits about you. Much more chance of falling down a hole. There are some big ones... keep an eye out. Oh- yeah- and insure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 18, 2012 Share #16  Posted January 18, 2012 As far as the wire goes... I'll take the wire. I'm a big guy and not going to just hand over my Leica easily. I'd love to see some skinny 100lb kid on a moped try to drag me along... ain't gonna happen  I think the physics is against you.  The thief may come off the motorbike, but you'd be on the floor in considerable pain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 18, 2012 Share #17 Â Posted January 18, 2012 We had a chap here once who advocated always carrying a large tripod. If you felt threatened he suggested waving it around like a pole-axe to deter the thieves. Â He was visiting Paris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 18, 2012 Share #18  Posted January 18, 2012 Because if some chancer comes along on a motor scooter and tries to grab the camera, would you rather the leather broke first, or your arm leave its socket in your shoulder? Small risk, I know, but I'd rather lose the camera in rural [insert your holiday destination here] than have a dislocated arm, or worse. To be fair, the clip attaching the strap to the camera would probably give way before your arm did, but it's going to smart pretty bad... Andy, if you hang a bag over one shoulder, then the risk is just as you describe. But I would never do that. My strap always fits diagonally over my chest and is not slack. That minimizes the grab and run risk. This practice worked well for me during three years in Naples! The bag remains visible and protected by torso and arm.  One other consideration for the OP; reduce to a minimum the number of photo items carried. This advice applies for reasons additional to security. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 18, 2012 Share #19  Posted January 18, 2012 Well, I live in rural Maine. Grand larceny is, with exceptions, limited to stealing a piece of wood off a neighbor's woodpile. [...]David  Maine! Are you aware of the urban trend in 'custom' firewood used largely for display by their never used fireplaces? Get over to Heidi's Firewood for their kiln dried stock, recut it for aesthetics, multiply the price by 500% and make a mint! Buy Leicas!  (I am aware because I could kick myself for not harvesting the same when I had a lot of land.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalme Posted January 18, 2012 Share #20  Posted January 18, 2012 Don't be daft    Don't be daft, 2.  I'm 6'3" and I am not skinny. I'm also not that arrogant. They have surprise and momentum on their side. You have...?  Regards,  Bill Why is tape over a logo "foolish"?.. That's what "daft" means in my google search.. I've never heard that word so had to look it up. Ineffective maybe but I wouldn't say a person is silly for trying to keep a low profile.  As as far as the wire goes it can be argued all day long. It WILL make it much harder for the typical cut and snatch. For the scooter guys it's certainly arguable... so I wouldn't say I'm foolish or silly. Either way I think the biggest threat to my equipment is me leaving it where someone can simply pick it up while I'm not looking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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