DMR Firmware V1.3 or Collectors & Historica

[rsolomon]

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Well ,

Here we are closing down February next week, and we are still waiting for the first release of firmware V1.3 - To be fair it depends if you count the one that comes with the camera ( V1.1) and if you count the one that a small percentage use V1.2. One could almost argue there hasn't been a recommended firmware upgrade from leica for the DMR since it came to market.

 

For me, i have used this firmware issue as a tele-tale of leica's commitment to the DMR, Once March 1 rolls around either the firmware will be there or it won't - most likely another delay without official word from leica - i certainly am hoping for the best.

 

I Hope the firmware arrives within a week or so, or leica makes a clear statement to DMR owners. Without either i will not further my investment. i feel that leica isn't aligned with my concernes ...and leica concerns exist outside of the R line.

 

Leica certainly has a right to go silent, as leica has- however, there is simply no excuse. Posting a few sentences of information on their website is easy, simple, and cost pennies - yet still not worth the investment from their perspective.

 

Once again the unspoken word has proven to be extremely powerful and i think the message is clear.

 

Luckily the forum has a "collector" section so we can chat there...

 

Rich

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[Jamie Roberts]

{snipped}

For me, i have used this firmware issue as a tele-tale of leica's commitment to the DMR, {snipped}

 

Is that different from a wide spread story?

 

Sorry! I couldn't resist; just kidding

 

Anyway, yes, as a DMR owner, it would be nice to get a firmware upgrade, but I'm not holding my breath for it. Leica has a lot on its hands right now with the M8, and it seems to be a hit.

 

With the DMR discontinued, and the relationship with Imacon, I don't know if they will ever develop a newer firmware, though they may still surprise us all later in the year.

 

But the M8s success, I think, will bode well for the R line, too. I can easily see an integrated R dSLR coming one day soon. There's been a ton of speculation on that here, too, and so I wouldn't count out the R line quickly.

 

But you're right--someday the DMR back will be a collector's item. In the meantime, though, that back is an awesome portable back. If I never get new firmware, it will still continue to take great shots, till it dies.

 

(Of course, the Passport warranty on the R9 sort of implies it will be around for awhile yet )

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Hmmm i am trying to find this info out with Leica right now . The word is they will always support the DMR as far as repair, service and such. The new firmware does raise a question if they will do something. The best suggestion is send Leica e-mails and let them know you want the firmware, if enough voices are heard than that may spark some action. This is a programable camera meaning anyone can write a new firmware for it. Hopefully after PMA we may have some answers to this. But i would strongly urge current owners to make your voice known to leica through e-mail.

[Englander]

Guy,

Can you remind me of the DMR time line. Didn't the DMR become widely available only in November or December of 2005? Skip when it was announced and when a few trickled in, I'm asking about when you could buy one with only a 4 or 5 week wait. If that is correct, then it basically had a one year life, right?

 

So why does anyone think the M8 is going to be the "current" item for any longer than a year? People started getting the M8 in December of 06. Will it be discontinued or replaced by the end of this year? That was the lifespan of the DMR. I'm not asking about what a great camera it is or how long it will keep on ticking. I'm thinking about a new corporate attitude toward model replacement and support. Based solely on the DMR experience and whatever changes the present management has in mind, the idea of Leica cameras being current for long periods is probably a thing of the past. It seems that Leica has jumped on as fast a digital equipment merry-go-round as Canon and even faster than Nikon.

 

If that's the case, then it probably brings the perspective of looking at the cameras as tools rather than as collector's items and that might not be a bad thing. It might herald Leica putting out more competitive and finely honed tools across the board instead of wallowing in "brand new leopard skin pillbox hat" collector's items. I sure hope so, because that is the only "excuse" I can accept for a company selling cameras "as is," without any hope of firmware updates delivered on a timely basis in the case of the DMR and diminishing hope of absolutely operationally necessary firmware updates for the M8.

 

Joe

[mgcd]

While it would be nice to have firmware v. 1.3 at last, I am still doing very well with v.1.1 and, RAW of course. It was a surprise for me to learn that the DMR will no longer be a current item, but that is most likely due to Imacon and Hasselblad more than to Leica. Hasselblad even had the nerve of putting me on their mailing list from the Flexcolor registration for use with the DMR. Needless to say that I asked them to remove my name.. Anyhow, my DMR is pumping out great quality flies so I am indeed very happy with it.

 

Cheers,

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Guy,

Can you remind me of the DMR time line. Didn't the DMR become widely available only in November or December of 2005? Skip when it was announced and when a few trickled in, I'm asking about when you could buy one with only a 4 or 5 week wait. If that is correct, then it basically had a one year life, right?

 

So why does anyone think the M8 is going to be the "current" item for any longer than a year? People started getting the M8 in December of 06. Will it be discontinued or replaced by the end of this year? That was the lifespan of the DMR. I'm not asking about what a great camera it is or how long it will keep on ticking. I'm thinking about a new corporate attitude toward model replacement and support. Based solely on the DMR experience and whatever changes the present management has in mind, the idea of Leica cameras being current for long periods is probably a thing of the past. It seems that Leica has jumped on as fast a digital equipment merry-go-round as Canon and even faster than Nikon.

 

If that's the case, then it probably brings the perspective of looking at the cameras as tools rather than as collector's items and that might not be a bad thing. It might herald Leica putting out more competitive and finely honed tools across the board instead of wallowing in "brand new leopard skin pillbox hat" collector's items. I sure hope so, because that is the only "excuse" I can accept for a company selling cameras "as is," without any hope of firmware updates delivered on a timely basis in the case of the DMR and diminishing hope of absolutely operationally necessary firmware updates for the M8.

 

Joe

 

Joe had mine since August 2005 actually the same day i joined this forum.

 

You do bring up a good concern and it certainly has it's value . I think what happened to the DMR is a shame really and it should have not gone out of production. One reason i think what happened was there relationship with Imacon and that went south really bad from the rumurs that float around. One of the reasons i think that happened was you see Imacons new path and that is a closed MF system with there H3 and there thinking they lost to much business with a open system so they pretty much figured to close the doors on everyone, it is a good and bad decision in my mind good in the long term for them but really upset current owners of the H1 and H2 and folks that had different brands of backs that there is nowhere to go with ther current back.

 

Now i am not sure Leica's thinking will be like Canon and replace every 18 months seems that they are small and turning around huge projects like that maybe unlikely. This is not a easy task to build from scratch and i honestly and hope there not let's upgrade it every 6 months mentality either. It is just to hard on the end user and in my mind quality control also. I really think the M8 will be here for awhile and once the warts go away it will be a even better system than it is today and even that is really good. i really am amazed at the image quality from a small box like this. But this will be a big success for them and will hopefully turn that into a DMR replacement which we have a good idea it is coming but when is really the question and discontinuing the DMR this far away from a replacement is I think a mistake.

 

My feeling is revamp it with completely new firmware from leica and it's current partners. I think this would make current end users happy and it will also help sales that actually are current with it. The M8 firmware i am not worried about for a second that is coming for sure and it will continue to be supported a long time. The future does look promissing for them, the big question is will they do it correctly for the market and it's users. i agree on the collectors part , those days should really be over . They need to stay ahead of the technology and use it to there best advantage when they have a good product to apply it towards. I think the key for most camera companies is to be 2 years ahead in the technology than when you go to release you always will have something more revolutionary instead of just another upgrade. Canon is a upgrade company, the last 4 years after the 1ds it is really one upgrade next, not completely new technology but more bells and whistles . It has served them finiancial well but still i think that is the wrong path . I like knock my socks off stuff when I buy a new camera. Let's hope the future is good for them.

 

Also it is not like the current firmware is not usable, it is and not earth shattering we don't have 1.3 so there are upset users but they are functioning perfectly well without it too. Again i think send them a note and let them know what your feelings are

[rosuna]

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The 1.10 firmware for the M8 will not arrive until the end of March, at the earliest, I have been told.

I don't know when the 1.3 firmware for the DMR will ship. It would be a good idea to provide 10-bit or 12-bit non linear compression of the original 16 bit files, and other improvements.

[tom0511]

The 1.10 firmware for the M8 will not arrive until the end of March, at the earliest.

This is speculation.

[rosuna]

No, this is information, from Leica.

[james_h]

The 1.10 firmware for the M8 will not arrive until the end of March, at the earliest, I have been told.

I don't know when the 1.3 firmware for the DMR will ship. It would be a good idea to provide 10-bit or 12-bit non linear compression of the original 16 bit files, and other improvements.

 

 

Presumably Rubén that will reduce Raw files from 20mb to 10mb a la M8 ...?

 

I think Leica may be waiting to use experience garnered from the M8 to develop the DMR firmware. This would be good practise if they are planning an R10, which I believe they may be.

 

I think it would have been a different story if the original firmware had shown the problems currently associated with the M8. We may not see ver 1.3 until much later this year.

 

Regards

Jim

[tom0511]

No, this is information, from Leica.

where can we read this information?

I ask because I spoke to someone from Leica 2 days ago who said that he expects the firmware in the beinning of March. He had a camera with the test-version with him.

[rosuna]

Presumably Rubén that will reduce Raw files from 20mb to 10mb a la M8 ...?

 

Yes, if the internal processor is powerful enough for those calculations, not increasing the total time required for writting the final file on the card. The DMR sensor and A/D converter work in a 16bits space, I think, so 10bits or 12bits non-linear compression would bring many advantages at not significant costs (if the processor can handle it fast enough). This innovation in the M8 can be applied to the DMR, in theory. The files would be much smaller.

[rosuna]

where can we read this information?

I ask because I spoke to someone from Leica 2 days ago who said that he expects the firmware in the beinning of March. He had a camera with the test-version with him.

 

I wrote to Leica asking for it. Maybe they can ship the update sooner than expected, or not. The time difference is not very significant. They are working on it. It is more important (for me) to have the IR filters, because I haven't extreme wide-angle lenses, but the magenta cast is present in many of my pictures, affecting not only fabrics.

 

They asked me to be patient, and I are. I prefer a work well done, in March or April.

[rsolomon]

who do we write to ?

 

i have read many many times on this forum that:

 

1. leica is reading this forum,

2. there are folks on the forum who talk to leica often

3. leica reaches out to folks on this forum.

 

my conclusions:

 

leica doesn't listen, leica can't listen, leica could listen but doesn't want to......forum people are exaggerating about their relationship

[ptomsu]

The 1.10 firmware for the M8 will not arrive until the end of March, at the earliest, I have been told.

I don't know when the 1.3 firmware for the DMR will ship. It would be a good idea to provide 10-bit or 12-bit non linear compression of the original 16 bit files, and other improvements.

 

DMR 1.3 FW shold have shipped in Nov06, Dec06, then Jan 06.......

 

Do you need more to inally understand what the future of the DMR and the R system will be?????

 

I do not believe in Leica any longer, especially the R system and i am counting very much on C and N and Sony and Panasonic, these will be the real winners and innovators of the digital photographic high end future ....

 

We should take bets on this :-)))

 

Peter

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Best answer I can give . I will take that bet:)

[Guest magyarman]

Well ,

Here we are closing down February next week, and we are still waiting for the first release of firmware V1.3 - To be fair it depends if you count the one that comes with the camera ( V1.1) and if you count the one that a small percentage use V1.2. One could almost argue there hasn't been a recommended firmware upgrade from leica for the DMR since it came to market.

 

For me, i have used this firmware issue as a tele-tale of leica's commitment to the DMR,

 

I thing is also reason why many peoples extra scare why is not yet firmware 1,10 for M8 after Leica broke relationship with Jenoptik. This not anything about commitment, Leica got better commitment to product then most of other marque. Is about Leica got holding like hostage by outside compagnies what they mast to depend for make it digital products. Is very danger for them and for costumor.

[bono0272]

But i would strongly urge current owners to make your voice known to leica through e-mail.

 

I wrote 2 e-mails to Solms, thru the links in the Leica official web site, around last October and November, contented about my wish and tentative releasing date of the DMR new firmware.

 

So far, I didn't receive any reply from the company yet. And I do not expect there will be response.

 

This is very disappointing. If the company does not intend to launch the new firmware, due to the discontinue of DMR, just say a word in the web site. Keeping silence will just make the customers complaining.

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[andybarton]

who do we write to ?

 

i have read many many times on this forum that:

 

1. leica is reading this forum,

2. there are folks on the forum who talk to leica often

3. leica reaches out to folks on this forum.

 

my conclusions:

 

leica doesn't listen, leica can't listen, leica could listen but doesn't want to......forum people are exaggerating about their relationship

 

Certainly some people at Leica read the forum (UK staff do), but maybe not the ones responsible for delivering firmware.

 

It would be nice if anyone that does have secret intimate relationships with the company, at the highest level, could find out what is going on with the DMR firmware.

 

My expectation is that v1.3 is D.O.A. and will never be released.

[tom0511]

who do we write to ?

 

i have read many many times on this forum that:

 

1. leica is reading this forum,

2. there are folks on the forum who talk to leica often

3. leica reaches out to folks on this forum.

 

my conclusions:

 

leica doesn't listen, leica can't listen, leica could listen but doesn't want to......forum people are exaggerating about their relationship

 

I am sure that Leica reads the forum and IMO they do listen.

On the other side its an illusion that they could follow every wish and idea.

I have the impression some people here expect Leica to hire 50 people just for answering every single thread on this forum. (half of them talking to people who have more fun criticizing and writing threads rather than taking a camera and shoot)

For the firmware they gave us a time-frame, they told us that it will correct cyan corners. They might be a little late. So what?

cheers, Tom